Slices of Time Episode 021 Wei Jian Chan

Posted on by Frederic Paulussen

Welcome to the Slices of Time Street Photography podcast. 

Today, I’m joined by Wei Jian Chan, a street photographer from Singapore but now based in London. When browsing through his work, you’ll soon notice his intense black and white compositions. They remind me of a mix between masters like Fan Ho and Henri Cartier Bresson.

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Timestamps of this episode with Wei Jian Chan

00:00 Introduction to Wei Jin Chan and His Journey

03:07 The Evolution of Street Photography

06:03 Sequencing and Editing: Crafting a Coherent Narrative

09:10 Film vs. Digital: A Photographer’s Perspective

12:05 Exploring Color in Photography

15:12 Cultural Reflections: Photography in India and Singapore

18:05 The Emotional Landscape of Street Photography

20:58 The Unique Perspective of a Migrant Photographer

24:05 Community and Collaboration in Photography

29:30 Building a Photography Community

32:06 Camera Choices and Their Impact

33:03 Exploring Street Portraiture

35:06 The Challenge of Getting Portraits

36:01 Instinctive Photography

37:00 Finding Inspiration

39:48 The Influence of Cinematography

43:09 The Art of Street Photography

44:57 Upcoming Book and Exhibition

50:51 The Role of Print Size in Photography

52:06 Future Projects and Directions

Photographers, resources, and gear mentioned in this episode:

Thank you for listening to this conversation with Wei Jian. Don’t forget to subscribe to be updated about upcoming episodes. Feel free to reach out via social media if you have any questions or ideas you’d like to share.

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Podcast Transcript

Frederic Paulussen (00:00)

So welcome back to the Slice of Time Street Photography Podcast yet another episode. Today I’m here with Wei Jin Chan, a street photographer originally from Singapore but now based in London, which is something we’ll probably discuss since it’s also a topic from his new book.

Browsing through his work for me what stood out was first of all the intense black and white compositions, very strong compositions and also they reminded me of a mix between ⁓ two masters mostly Henri Cartier-Bresson and Fan Ho so I’m curious to look into his inspirations there. So yeah maybe you could introduce yourself first for a second.

Wei Jian Chan (00:47)

Nice to meet you, Fred. My name is Wei Jian and as you’ve mentioned, I’m a street photographer. I shoot mainly black and white street photography and I’ve got a fascination with visual motifs like anonymity, geometry and I have quite a formal visual language with my photography. ⁓ As you mentioned earlier, I have a new photo book out with Setanta Books. It’s called Journey to the West and it’s sort of inspired by the early years of moving from Singapore to London and through the book, through my street photography.

I’ve tried to evoke a sense of the dislocation and uncertainty that I felt as a migrant in the early years.

Frederic Paulussen (01:24)

That’s a very interesting… Well, of course the book isn’t out at the time of our recording, so I haven’t seen it yet. I’ve seen some snippets on the website. So, is it because you were in London for like 10 or 15 years almost now? No?

Wei Jian Chan (01:42)

So this is my 13th year in London actually and at the time I was sequencing the book, it was just about the end of my first decade ⁓ and also roughly the time when I obtained my residency in the UK ⁓ and so it was a point where I had lot of feelings about moving to the UK and I think it kind of bubbled up in my street photography in terms of the things that caught my eye.

Frederic Paulussen (01:44)

13 years, yeah. ⁓

Yeah.

Okay

Wei Jian Chan (02:09)

the things I decided to photograph and sort of the directions I took with my work. ⁓ So perhaps just expand a bit on that and tell the story of how I came to this theme I’ve sort of been photographing since I was a kid, since I was about 14. ⁓ And in 2019, I had sort of, ⁓ you know, this period where I was searching for a new direction to take my photography. So I experimented with a few genres.

I tried out making some wildlife images, I tried out making some landscape images, and I realised that these genres didn’t really fit with my lifestyle because due to work commitments, it’s difficult for me to head out to the country and make landscape images. And where I sort of landed was street photography, just because I found it an incredibly accessible form of photography. All I have to do is step out of my front door and I can make photographs. I can make photographs on the way back home from work, on the way to work.

⁓ and on the weekends, it’s something that fits quite neatly into a lifestyle. And with my photography, I’ve generally been interested by people, and to me, street photography is inherently about human stories. You mentioned Henri Cartier-Bresson earlier, that there’s a big sort of humanist tradition to it. And so that was another thing that made me fall into it. So I began working, ⁓ I into this pattern really of photographing in black and white.

and developed a distinctive visual language along the way, which had been one of my goals. And around 2021, I had this body of work that needed a bit of organizing. There were lot of images that looked coherent in a similar visual style, but I was trying to figure out what I had to say. And so that began the sequencing and editing process. And let me tell you something.

Sequencing and editing I find so much harder than the photographing because photographing is very instinctive. You just head out, whatever catches your eye, you photograph. the intellectual work, the hard miles are done in the sequencing bit. And that’s when you go from having a collection of photographs, a portfolio, to having a coherent body of work. And that, I think, is the key step that an artist, as photographic artist, has to take. ⁓ And so it took many iterations. I tried many.

Frederic Paulussen (04:08)

Yeah.

Wei Jian Chan (04:34)

I went down lot of rabbit holes. So initially, I started by categorizing my images, images that were made in rain, of perhaps hard light. And ⁓ that ended up being an ineffective way to edit and sequence a body of work, because then what you have is a catalog, not a book. And then I started thinking about, perhaps I worked a lot in London. Maybe I make a photo book about London. And then I realized,

know, Matt Stuart’s done that. It’s been done to death and I thought I didn’t have anything original to say about London.

Frederic Paulussen (05:11)

Okay,

so first you didn’t have the story about your book that’s… what was it again? Going West? Journey to the West, sorry, yeah. So it wasn’t really like the original idea. You first wanted to make a book and then you started looking through your photos what could be a project or am I misunderstanding now?

Wei Jian Chan (05:21)

It’s called Journey to the West.

No, I think I put it this way, I was trying to make sense of my photographs, I was trying to understand what I was trying to say. Because I had at that point maybe 40,000 plus images I’d made, and obviously not all successful. Many failures along the way, street photography happens. But I had this core of maybe a couple hundred images that I felt were interesting, but that didn’t, as an edit of…

Frederic Paulussen (05:38)

Okay. Yeah, okay, okay.

Wei Jian Chan (06:03)

couple hundred images tell a story. And so I wanted to piece together and that was the path I took towards producing this book.

Frederic Paulussen (06:15)

Okay cool and then you started sequencing in Lightroom or how did you start making those connections in your stories with the photos you already had?

Wei Jian Chan (06:28)

So the initial cull is done in Lightroom because to print 40,000 images is not untenable. I cut it down to maybe, ⁓ you sort of know what images you like and you go through your collection, you pick those that you think are interesting. And so I had it down to maybe, I think maybe 200 plus that I printed out onto little 4×6 prints, nice and cheap at local sort of print shop.

And then I sort of just laid them out in my apartment. it was, you know, at one point it was covering my dining table, my coffee table, my floor, put them out on the walls. You sort of live with them. You look at them every night when you come home from work and you just sort of figure out ⁓ how they fit together and ⁓ what goes with what. And along the way, you start looking for sequences. So, you you start with the sort of, you know, go from the atoms to the molecules, don’t you? So…

The atom is the individual image and the molecule would be the diptych. ⁓ Two images that perhaps say something together and the whole is a bit more than the sum of its parts. So I found a couple of diptychs along the way, ⁓ found images that sort of flowed from one to the other that individually tell a story and then through these little sequences you build the longer chain that becomes the book.

Frederic Paulussen (07:50)

Okay, that’s very, very interesting. And to me, because I saw you ⁓ do both digital and analog, was it hard to combine photos from those two mediums or did you already ⁓ like select one, only one medium, like only the digital files or how did you combine those two?

Wei Jian Chan (08:12)

So film and digital, they are they are very different technical processes, they? But fundamentally, when I go out, I’m not looking for different things. I’m still looking for the same kind of light. I think at that point, I’m subconsciously looking at the same sort of themes in my photographs. so the image acquisition process is different. With digital, you just connect your card to your computer and you’re done. With film, you’ve got to actually…

develop the film and scan it. ⁓ But ultimately, I think the images fit together because they had a coherence through the underlying thinking that was going on. And if you’re going to blend film and digital, then it’s a bit more complicated because then at the printing stage, you’ve got to test out papers and make sure that the film and digital prints hang well together side by side. So it was process of going to the printer and experimenting with different paper stocks.

Starting out, my belief is that with a film print, you want a fine art baryta ⁓ silver gelatin print. That’s the gold standard. shouldn’t settle for anything less. And so it was a question of testing out different digital paper stocks so that the digital prints look good hanging next to the film print.

Frederic Paulussen (09:27)

Okay, so you really did like a deep dive in paper and printing as well? ⁓ Okay, really enjoyed it as well?

Wei Jian Chan (09:33)

Yeah, I’m nerdy like that.

I think so. I I enjoy the technical aspects of photography as much as anyone else. I have to consciously hold myself back from nerding out about gear. ⁓ I have a chat with my friends called Gear Acquisition Syndrome Club and it’s, you know, that is a part of process for me, finding the best way to achieve the result I want ⁓ and it’s quite rewarding when you make it work.

Frederic Paulussen (10:01)

That’s cool, yeah, okay. And I heard you mentioned that your analog work and your digital work aren’t really necessarily different. So I’m curious, when do you grab to the analog camera or is there like a, or is it just how you feel that day for the camera you take outside?

Wei Jian Chan (10:22)

⁓ There isn’t a hard and fast rule. The reason why I like film is because I love the way black and white film prints look. There’s a very sort of… The total quality to a well-made silver gelatin print is, to my eyes, beautiful and I don’t really have a good reason why or how to explain that. And also the sort of texture that an image has with the film grain ⁓ is also beautiful to me.

And so I think the way I think about it is if I’m trying to create a very clean, sharp, crisp image, so you’ve seen some of my images where the light is perhaps the focus and where I’ve got a bit of modern architecture in the image. ⁓ So I want that crispness. Then I might grab my digital camera. And then if I know that it’s something perhaps a bit more lyrical, perhaps a bit… ⁓

bit softer, gentler, then I might grab my film camera. I mean, that’s a really broad approximation. And I mean, frankly, if I have to just grab one and go out the house, I’ll grab my digital because it’s more convenient.

Frederic Paulussen (11:33)

Very true, yeah. But you often have both with them or with your…

Wei Jian Chan (11:38)

I mean there was a period where I would carry both but along the years I found that just having one is much much easier. ⁓ It’s because realistically you only have one pair of hands and you can only use one camera at a time.

Frederic Paulussen (11:43)

Yeah, I can’t imagine.

very very very true yeah and so with both you always do black and white because yeah of course for film it’s it’s yeah you have to choose a film which is probably black and white but then for digital you you never use color

Wei Jian Chan (12:05)

No, no, that’s not true at all. I do actually make a lot of images in colour. ⁓ So one thing I’m doing right now is I’m working on a series in India. So I’ve been taking a few trips out there and to me it would be wrong to photograph India in black and white. Or perhaps I shouldn’t put it in such harsh terms. There’s great work coming out of India that’s in black and white. But personally for me, ⁓ I think colour is the way to do it. And also it’s a new challenge for myself and the way to expand my toolkit.

Frederic Paulussen (12:09)

Okay.

Wei Jian Chan (12:35)

And obviously there’s a lot of photographers that do incredible things with color. And I think it adds a layer of emotion. ⁓ If you just think of an Alex Webb image from Mexico, the sultry reds, the heat of it comes through because of the color. And it was that jump to color that I think elevated his photography into what it is today. So I do make working color is the short answer.

Frederic Paulussen (13:01)

Okay, so yeah, okay. And yeah, India, that’s an interesting choice because it’s, there’s a lot to see there, of course. It’s quite popular. So I’m curious what drew you to do like multiple trips to India and…

Wei Jian Chan (13:18)

So the first time I went was because my friend was getting married. He was getting married in Bangalore and I decided to make a trip of it. So I went to Delhi Agra Jaipur, the sort of classic tourist triangle of India and sort of just fell in love there. ⁓ It is such a vibrant, exciting place. ⁓ Quite unlike, you know, if you live in Western Europe ⁓ or North America, quite unlike anything you might have seen in your daily life. So, you know, visually it’s cacophony.

Frederic Paulussen (13:21)

Okay.

Wei Jian Chan (13:47)

it’s chaos and out of that comes something very interesting. A lot of photographers have made work out there but I’m hoping that perhaps there’s something for me to say.

Frederic Paulussen (13:52)

Okay.

Yeah and then because for example I see some books that behind you like some Salgado, Sebastiao Salgado which is of course very black and white. you draw other inspirate or do you look for other photographers for inspiration for this India project because it’s in color then or?

Wei Jian Chan (14:21)

So, I mean I do draw inspiration from other photographers but I don’t plan for a trip by looking at work from that area. basically I don’t look at photographs of India when I’m heading to India because I don’t want to make the same work and so it helps to avoid that.

Frederic Paulussen (14:31)

Okay.

No, of course, but you look like

at other color photographers. Could be from anywhere, of course, but okay.

Wei Jian Chan (14:44)

Yes, So

two names stand out for me for color photography. The first is Alex Webb. I hugely respect his work. think that the color adds this… His use of color is poetry. ⁓ So much of the image comes from the brilliant use of color and the tones coming together. ⁓ The image of the boy jumping in, I think, Tamalipas in Mexico.

with the blues across the image. It’s just, it’s beautiful. ⁓ And second name would be Harry Gruyaert ⁓ So yeah, I think it’s precisely, yeah. And again, another genius when it comes to colour. Yeah, absolutely beautiful stuff.

Frederic Paulussen (15:21)

yeah, he’s from around here, yeah.

Okay, that’s cool. that’s true to very distinct names. That’s very interesting. ⁓ But then perhaps let’s go back to the book for a second. You mentioned already that you, and you added also mentioned on the website that you tried to evoke like a sense of dislocation and uncertainty. How easy was it to find that in your photos? Because it’s of course very, very…

emotional aspects to the image of course, so how did you make sure that those emotions were in your series?

Wei Jian Chan (16:10)

think it sort of just happened. didn’t go out with my camera thinking, today I’m going to photograph some dislocation and uncertainty. ⁓ I sort of just react to the scene before me. ⁓ And after a few months, it becomes quite instinctive, doesn’t it? You pick up your camera, you know what you’re looking for. You see the image and you just sort of hope that you make it work. ⁓ And out of that process for me came… ⁓

Frederic Paulussen (16:12)

Okay.

Wei Jian Chan (16:39)

a lot of images that I, when I look at them, read as a sense of dislocation perhaps, a sense of uncertainty. And I think a lot of it comes down to the abstraction that I like to use in my work, so where the individual is ⁓ not recognizable or perhaps lost in a broader scene because it’s been singled out by the light that ⁓ is in that scene. So…

Frederic Paulussen (16:45)

Yeah.

Wei Jian Chan (17:08)

When I was looking at my work, was really in retrospect in hindsight that ⁓ I saw the themes of dislocation and uncertainty come through.

Frederic Paulussen (17:16)

Yeah, okay, makes sense. And so, did you start photographing immediately when you arrived to London? So was it because you started after 10 years, you started doing the sequence? did you have like 10 years of work or did you at first, because you mentioned doing the landscape and nature photography? Was there some of that first? No, no, no.

Wei Jian Chan (17:36)

So in the early days, apologies. So in the

early days, when I first came to the UK, I did have my camera and me quite a lot, and I just photographed my daily life. I would not describe that as street photography. It was more sort of pictures of my friends and pictures of places I might go to when I travel. And the character of my work back then was quite different. lot of it was in color, and a lot of it was sort of pretty pictures of…

a lake I might have visited or a church I might have visited in Europe. And for many years I photographed in that manner without sort of great focus. I was focused on going to university and the early days of my work. was, the turning point for me was 2019 when I wanted to really sort of…

find my voice in photography, I think is the way I’d put it. ⁓ I felt that I’d been photographing for a while and that the work didn’t really have a coherence to it, so I actively sought out to try and learn more about photography, to experiment and to find ⁓ something that I was interested in and that I could pursue more concretely. So yeah, it didn’t start in 2012 when I first moved to the UK.

Frederic Paulussen (18:56)

Okay.

Wei Jian Chan (19:02)

as a street photography series.

Frederic Paulussen (19:05)

Okay, okay. Yeah, I was curious to that because he also is you mentioned you started photographing at 14 years old So you’ve been doing it for a while, but only street photography has only been like the past what’s now five six years Already Wow. Yeah, okay Okay

Wei Jian Chan (19:20)

That’s right, yeah.

I mean like any

kid with a camera, just sort of, you know, if I was at school there was a sports race going on, I might photograph the race. Or I was in the photography club and we just, you know, make pictures for the school. Yeah, it wasn’t anything concrete.

Frederic Paulussen (19:30)

Yeah.

Yeah,

okay, but you didn’t do a street photography in Singapore before you came to London.

Wei Jian Chan (19:43)

No, I didn’t. But I do street photography in Singapore now though. So whenever I head back to Singapore, I try and make a few images. And sort of the direction I’m trying to take with that is to find memories from Singapore as I used to remember it. ⁓ If you know Singapore at all, you’ll know that it’s a city that’s constantly changing. mean, the skyline, every time I go back, it’s slightly different. And a restaurant that I like will have closed down, and something new will be in its place. So it’s a very dynamic city.

Frederic Paulussen (19:43)

Not really, okay.

Okay.

Okay.

Wei Jian Chan (20:12)

Amidst all that change, it’s fun to try and find elements of it that remind me of how it used to be.

Frederic Paulussen (20:19)

Okay that’s interesting actually, yeah that’s a nice project as well. And so do you notice like differences between London and Singapore? Because they’re both fairly modern cities. is there like, you notice, well of course architecturally which is an important aspect for you I think, but also like people-wise is there a difference in how you approach it?

Wei Jian Chan (20:43)

Well, there’s so many differences. Let me focus in on perhaps the one key thing that I find interesting in Singapore. And so in Singapore, we have something called the Housing Development Board, HDB. And that is a government-run scheme for the construction of affordable housing. So whereas in the UK and in Europe, there is a social stigma associated with living in social housing, or it is perhaps perceived as not ⁓

Frederic Paulussen (20:58)

Okay.

Wei Jian Chan (21:12)

the ideal situation to be in, in Singapore, living in an HDB flat is just the standard thing to do. Almost everyone will buy one at some point in their lives. And I think, I don’t know the statistics, but I think it’s something in excess of 70 % of people live in HDB flats. And so the HDB estates in Singapore have a distinctive character to them. ⁓ What you have is… ⁓

Frederic Paulussen (21:29)

Okay.

Wei Jian Chan (21:39)

What you have is these very high-rise tower blocks, ⁓ ranging from 10 to 40 storeys tall, and you have them in clusters with local amenities like playgrounds, food markets, and ⁓ shop houses along the area. so visually they look quite distinctive, and they also have a certain way they’re decorated. So the government in Singapore likes to put very bright colors on the HDB blocks.

⁓ And so that is something you do not see in London, where your average street is in shades of brown and grey. And accordingly, London and Singapore feel very different when you zoom in on that one aspect of it. ⁓ And then within that, there’s certain things that remind me of my childhood. So one of my pictures that comes to mind is a picture of a mophead hanging out of a window just to dry.

and that’s not really something that you will see ⁓ in urban London. yeah, visually it’s quite different. And I know I mentioned bright colours in Singapore, but funnily enough, this series in Singapore is mostly in black and white for me.

Frederic Paulussen (22:53)

⁓ okay. It’s funny how much a city can change by just like painting the walls. you said, of course there’s more to it, but sometimes just some bright colors in a city can make it so much nicer, I think, than the brown. London sometimes just looks miserable in a way because of those. Yeah, exactly. So that’s okay, that’s very cool. ⁓

Wei Jian Chan (23:14)

You don’t come to London for the sunshine, that’s for sure.

Frederic Paulussen (23:22)

And then you, a quote on your website that really spoke to me was, it’s on the page of the United Kingdom about the death of Queen Elizabeth II. You have these quotes there that you mentioned. It simply felt wrong to watch history unfold from my sofa at home.

which I found super interesting. Is that a driving factor for you to go to do all your projects like India and at home in Singapore and in London and you have some more about, there was one about like the air shows. Is that like something you have to go out to experience the world or was that just for this one event?

Wei Jian Chan (24:05)

Absolutely. ⁓ I don’t know what it is, but I’m not content to sit at home and just ⁓ sort of watch TV that doesn’t cut it for me. And I guess it’s just my personality. ⁓ I sort of enjoy it very much when I have the opportunity to go out into the world, interact with it, and through my photography, say perhaps something distinctive.

That happened in 2022 and when the news hit that the Queen had passed away, it just didn’t feel right to be sitting at home and watching TV. I just grabbed my camera and I went out to Green Park Station where a vigil had started and I just photographed till quite late in the evening and over the next two weeks I believe, I sort of went out almost every day with my camera, work permitting.

because I just wanted to get a sense of what was going on in London. It just felt too important a moment, too significant to ignore. And it was very interesting for me because they say the British love queuing, and one major aspect of that event was the long queue that formed, and people queuing for 24 hours to pay their respects to the Queen. ⁓ And I think that also spoke to an element of British culture, the British psyche.

that I personally don’t understand. I wouldn’t keep for 24 hours myself. ⁓ But yeah, was just something interesting that I felt that I wanted to photograph.

Frederic Paulussen (25:46)

Yeah, in a way is it easier for you to spot these things because you weren’t born and raised in London? Is it for you like, because of course just as if I walk around here in Antwerp a lot of things pass by me because they’re so obvious or so natural. maybe like things like, yeah of course the queue is a very big event, but are there like things that you notice that you notice more than some people from London who…

Are maybe taking things for granted?

Wei Jian Chan (26:20)

I think that I would notice different things than people who live in London or grew up in London. ⁓ Because I approach it as somebody who grew up elsewhere, ⁓ many things in London are unusual to me. To give you an example, you do not get protests in Singapore. They just do not happen. ⁓ And so when I went to my first protest to photograph in London, that felt incredibly different. And I sort of reacted to that in my own way. ⁓

Frederic Paulussen (26:37)

Okay.

Wei Jian Chan (26:49)

And an event like the Notting Hill Carnival would probably not be allowed to happen in Singapore because it would be perceived as disorderly. again, whenever I go to these events, I go there naturally with my own lived experiences. And I look, I think, for different things than a Londoner might. And you’ve got many photographers out there who, as I understand it, have lived in London, perhaps South London, perhaps. ⁓

I know the area intimately and have a deeper appreciation of the local culture than I do. So when they go into the fish and chip shop to make a photograph, I think they zoom in on things that are more nostalgic for them ⁓ and sort of find different images than I might. So I think it’s, suppose, if you wanted to make a body of work about how someone ⁓ not from London might see it, then I would have an easier time.

But equally, if you wanted to make a work that’s rooted in nostalgia, familiarity, a sense of the past, then somebody who grew up in a place would be a better fit.

Frederic Paulussen (27:58)

Yeah,

I think it comes to show that everyone has their background and everyone and that makes us all look differently at things around us. So if you in your hometown or somewhere else, you always have your own vision because of ⁓ where you grew up, how you grew up ⁓ and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, exactly.

Wei Jian Chan (28:18)

I think that’s precisely it and I think that’s the beauty of tree photography because the streets, it’s the same street, right? But,

you know, five different photographers walk down it, I think you’ll probably get four different perspectives, at least, if not five.

Frederic Paulussen (28:30)

Yeah, exactly. And that’s I find very, very interesting. ⁓ So you mentioned already also the gear acquisition ⁓ group. Is that something like, did you actively look out for communities in London to…

improve your street photography or is it more just because you have the same interest and it’s fun to make friends that way or is it really like ⁓ a tool to improve your photography that makes sense that question?

Wei Jian Chan (29:01)

Just to clarify, the title of that group is just a joke. We don’t exclusively discuss gear, but I do ⁓ seek out other photographers in London and I’ve made a few friends along the way. ⁓ So I like to go out and photograph other people because I think it changes things up and it’s just nice to have a chat. It’s almost like a catch-up with an old friend. Talk about what you’ve been photographing, sort of bounce ideas off people and often learn something new from them. ⁓

Frederic Paulussen (29:03)

Okay.

Hahaha

Wei Jian Chan (29:30)

because they’ll notice something that you might not even have thought about. along the way, yeah, there’s a really good community in London. And actually, if you just go out on the weekend on a nice sunny day, you’ll see many, photographers out, some of which are familiar faces. And in addition to these ⁓ friend groups I’ve got, I’ve also done a few workshops along the way with, ⁓ you know, other various photographers, some about photography, some about bookmaking.

Frederic Paulussen (29:46)

Okay.

Wei Jian Chan (30:00)

and those have all been very helpful.

Frederic Paulussen (30:01)

I

can imagine, especially bookmaking, it’s useful to have someone explain to you how to start with it, because it’s something very obscure, it’s a very niche skill. Street photography, there’s a lot of content. I can also recommend following workshops, as you say, because it really helps looking differently at things.

That’s very true. do you often, do you enjoy going out with others or like on a regular basis or is it more like once in a while and mostly do your street photography solo or?

Wei Jian Chan (30:46)

I mostly do my street photography on my own, ⁓ but that’s just a function of just having a busy schedule. you know, my approach is I’ll just have my camera on me as I go about my life. So if I’m going to meet some friends for lunch, I will just take my camera and then take a walk in that area afterwards. ⁓ And so, you know, it’s not that easy to arrange ⁓ catch-ups with, you know, long street photography sessions with other photographers.

and so I just don’t do it for that reason. But I do actually enjoy very much photographing with my friends and ⁓ you know just walking around London with them. Sometimes there’s less photography and more eating or more coffee. That’s the truth.

Frederic Paulussen (31:22)

Yeah, that’s.

Yeah,

yeah, exactly. And so is it like a smaller camera that you bring or do you don’t mind and bring like a big one or?

Wei Jian Chan (31:36)

I generally try to keep it small because the main determinant of the quality of the street photography is the amount of time and the distance you cover. ⁓ So it doesn’t hugely matter if you’re shooting on an iPhone or a large format camera. ⁓ I think that influences the kind of images you might make ⁓ with sometimes ⁓ a slower, heavier camera being more deliberate and a smaller, lighter camera being more reactive.

The camera is not important to me. It’s what I’ve found along the years. I’ll make photos on my phone. I’ll make photos on my rangefinder camera. And I’ve taken medium format film cameras out before. I use a whole bunch, maybe perhaps too many cameras.

Frederic Paulussen (32:26)

Okay, you really change it up. That’s interesting. Yeah, for me it’s usually like the exact same setup every time I go out because I don’t want to think about it but I can see that the allure of trying different things. For example, because you had like a series of portraits on your website made with a… was a Hasselblad forgot the specific one. that’s… yeah. And then there you really had like a different approach to how you…

Wei Jian Chan (32:49)

It’s a 500 cm, yeah.

Frederic Paulussen (32:55)

looked at photography because those photos feel kind of different than the other work on your website? Was that like intentional or?

Wei Jian Chan (33:03)

Yes, so that project came about for me because the sort of lockdowns in London were lifting and so having spent a lot of time at home, leaving the house again, I felt I wanted to do something to celebrate that newfound freedom and the way I decided to do that was by photographing strangers. So I sort of took my house blot out and…

What I would do is, you know, it felt very unnatural at the start because street portraiture isn’t something I do very often. So I would set a goal, which is I’m just going to shoot one roll of film today. And so I take my house blood out with, you know, a roll of Tri-X in the back and just make that, just shoot, you know, pictures, which was, it felt a very achievable goal. So.

I think those images are different because as you may know the sort of posture you have to adopt when you’re using a Hasselblad is very different than other cameras because of the right angle finder. So you’re almost crouched over trying to look down the chimney into the ground glass and to focus the lens. so naturally you’re photographing from a lower angle. Naturally you’re photographing from this sort of relatively unnatural I’d say position. ⁓ And because it’s so slow…

It takes a while to set up. You have to be more deliberate with your communication with the subject to tell them, you know, perhaps stand this way, look into the camera and just, you know, give me that 10, 20 seconds I need to actually make this photograph. So your relationship with the world changes and your perspective literally changes, ⁓ you know, when you’re using a camera that’s built differently like that Hasselblad.

Frederic Paulussen (34:50)

Okay, yeah. So again, like the camera kind of, well, doesn’t dictate how you approach things, but you can approach things differently if you use different camera. And so one roll of film, which is like 36 photos, I’m assuming, was it 36 different? Ah, 12. Okay. So was it 12 images, like 12 different people, or did you like six different people and like shoot two photos per person or?

Wei Jian Chan (35:06)

On the Hasselblad is 12 images.

My standard practice was to make two pictures per person. So it was six people. And along the way, you sort get more comfortable and you can shoot a bit more. But the reality of it is so many people say no, that getting six is a good achievement in a day.

Frederic Paulussen (35:21)

Okay. Yeah, okay, but…

Okay.

really,

you got so many noses? Okay, yeah, because often I’m surprised how ⁓ easy or willing people are, but then you still got plenty of noses. Okay.

Wei Jian Chan (35:46)

Well,

I wouldn’t say it’s, you know, I can’t give you a percentage, never kept track, but there were considerable proportions of people. I mean, completely understandably, you you might just feel that you don’t look your best that day or ⁓ you might be shy, know, lots of reasons.

Frederic Paulussen (36:01)

True, because you… I mean, of course, it’s a couple of photos only on your website. And did you… I’m looking for it now. Did you look for particular people? was it just vibe or was it something that ⁓ drew your attention in them?

Wei Jian Chan (36:25)

I think it was vibe. ⁓ With my photography, I’m pretty instinctive and I try not to overthink because when I overthink my photography, I don’t take photos. ⁓ it would just be, you know, somebody looks interesting, perhaps they’ve got an interesting outfit or they have an interesting bearing to them, then I would try and speak to them. So yeah, it’s, you know, it wasn’t that I thought, okay, I have to have 50… ⁓

Frederic Paulussen (36:48)

Hmm.

Wei Jian Chan (36:56)

people of this category and 50 of that category or anything like that.

Frederic Paulussen (37:00)

No, yeah, okay. Something you just mentioned is something I’m ⁓ becoming super aware of recently, which is the, if I overthink, I don’t shoot as much. And for me as well, like last, I had like a rough period of rough periods of two months in which I didn’t really photograph anything that I really liked because I was overthinking too much. And now it’s just like, okay, I have to learn to shut down my thoughts. I’ll shut down.

And then I all of sudden make like 500 images in like half a day. So is that something you, if you go out, is there like a routine or process you use to make sure that you get like in the right mindset or flush out the flood of thoughts?

Wei Jian Chan (37:52)

Well, first off, I completely agree. ⁓ I’ve had difficult periods myself where I keep asking myself, where does this photograph go? What series does it fall into? Is it going to be a meaningful image that I can make use of the underline? And when I think about that too much, then I just don’t take pictures because it just feels all pointless. ⁓ So I’ve gone out for days where I come back with virtually nothing. And that is…

that adds to the sense of frustration and is think altogether unhelpful for photography. In terms of what I do, I found that I don’t overthink when I feel inspired and I don’t mean that I have a particular end goal in mind. What I mean is just that I feel creative and that I feel ⁓ just excited to be out with my camera and quite often that comes down to watching a movie.

with ⁓ beautiful cinematography, ⁓ which is inspiring, uplifting ⁓ from that artistic standpoint. And then I’ll go out, sort of, with that in the back of my head and just feel uplifted by that, ⁓ the genius, frankly, that you’ve just seen. Or it might be that I went to an exhibition and I saw work that really spoke to me.

I bought a new photo book and ⁓ felt that ⁓ this person’s a genius. And it’s just that sense of feeling creative and feeling uplifted ⁓ and being in a good mood that I think puts me in the right head space to make good work. Another thing that really helps is just being in fresh surroundings. So one of the reasons I just love going to India is that it’s just so unusual.

It’s so different than my daily life that you cannot help but react to it and feel that this is distinctive and that this is interesting ⁓ and you therefore find it quite easy to make pictures. having fresh surroundings or just going to a new event makes things ⁓ easier for photography.

Frederic Paulussen (40:12)

Very true, yeah. That’s definitely true. I like those tips. And you mentioned ⁓ watching movies. that something… How much did photography ruin your movie experience? in, can you still enjoy it? Because sometimes, specifically if it’s a movie with very good photography, I kind of…

get out of the movie because I want to see or analyze the images. Do you have the same issue and then are there like directors you you really love their work and that inspire you?

Wei Jian Chan (40:46)

So I disagree, actually, with you. I don’t find that photography ruins my experience of watching films. I think on the other hand, it actually improves it, ⁓ because it allows me to better understand what I’m looking at and to think about the genius of what’s being done. So ⁓ to give you two names for directors, Chris Nolan, Denis Villeneuve, ⁓ pretty standard, those are the other greats for me.

Frederic Paulussen (40:49)

Okay.

Wei Jian Chan (41:16)

And in terms of cinematographers, Roger Deakins, the obvious name, and Hoyte van Hoytema are really, really excellent at their craft. And what you’ll see is they’ve taken something quite mundane, quite ordinary, and made something magical out of it. To give you one example that sticks out to me, in the movie in 1917 by Sam Mendes the director.

Roger Deakins, cinematographer, had this scene in the movie where the lead character is running down ⁓ a destroyed city and it’s illuminated with parachute flares. So these are flares you might put in your 40mm grenade launcher and launch into the sky and they all fall down slowly because they are lit with parachutes so that’s how they work. ⁓ because I’m Singaporean, I’ve

done two years of military service and I’ve fired off some parachute flares and I’ve never looked at them in the way that Roger Deakins did. It would never have struck me that they are such a beautiful way to light a scene because of the changing light and because they very small light sources and they phosphorus flares that burn very brightly. They are very hard light and so you have these shadows raking across the landscape through the ruins of the city.

Frederic Paulussen (42:22)

Okay.

Wei Jian Chan (42:41)

casting shadows and so the shadows moving along as the character ⁓ comes in and out of the beams of light and it’s a really striking, deeply striking scene in the movie. And so I look at something like that and think there is truly genius out there and ⁓ I think Roger Deakins requires no introduction as a cinematographer ⁓ but yeah, it’s really incredible, beautiful work.

Frederic Paulussen (43:09)

a beautiful story actually as well like how you notice that and how personal it becomes as well with the military service so that’s very very very nice ⁓ and so then because of course that’s hard to ⁓ reproduce in the streets with the phosphorus flares for example ⁓

Wei Jian Chan (43:37)

Yeah, I’m not firing off

parachute flares in London, I think I get arrested.

Frederic Paulussen (43:39)

Yeah,

probably yeah, might make a good story as well, but it does spark you to go out and look for like similar lighting experiences or is it more like just your vibe like this is so cool and I’m just going out again or…

Wei Jian Chan (43:57)

Yeah, I don’t think you can go out and look for similar ⁓ scenes like that. mean, as you know, the amount ⁓ of that’s spent to build a set like that and to photograph that scene is… is unattainable. And also, it doesn’t really fit with the character of street photography as something, you know, where it’s simple, minimalistic, and you are going out there to work with the tools that the world allows you to use.

Frederic Paulussen (44:03)

This is a very specific one, yeah.

Yeah.

Wei Jian Chan (44:27)

So you’re not creating the scene in a Gregory Crutzen kind of manner. And you’re just painting with the limited canvas you’ve got. I think more than giving me specific things I want to go out and imitate, it just gives me this inspiration and ⁓ sense that with creativity, with experimentation, and with a good eye,

you can make very interesting things out of the ordinary. And I think that’s beautiful.

Frederic Paulussen (45:04)

Very much so, yeah, very true. So I’m thinking, because we’ll have like 10 more minutes, let’s say. Let’s talk about your book again and the upcoming show in London or gallery show in London. So of course, they’re linked, I assume. So, yeah, so is it…

Wei Jian Chan (45:26)

That’s correct.

Frederic Paulussen (45:32)

I’m assuming the gallery is kind of like a best-of from the book, which is already of course a best-of from your work. Is it true or…?

Wei Jian Chan (45:41)

Yes, so ⁓ basically the exhibition is to celebrate the launch of my photobook and I’ll be showing pictures from ⁓ my photobook and I know haven’t made the final selection yet but it will be a limited set of the images just because the space won’t allow me to hang all the pictures from the book, it would be, they would be untenable. So it’s going to be in London on the 24th and 25th of October at the Aperture Gallery near Oxford Circus Station, so very central.

Frederic Paulussen (45:45)

Mm-hmm.

Wei Jian Chan (46:11)

and it’s open to everyone, anyone who listens to this podcast and lives in London, I hope to see you there.

Frederic Paulussen (46:16)

Yeah, or visit London for the weekends. ⁓ Or it’s not a weekend maybe. But ⁓ and how do you, how are you, or you’re still doing it, how are you going about making those, the selection for what’s, what will be used in the gallery? Because of course, I’m assuming it’s bigger prints than it looks in the book. It’s limited. there’s like a kill your darling situation.

Wei Jian Chan (46:41)

So, okay,

very much so. So it’s the same method that I used for the book, little 4×6 prints, actually just the very same prints I used to sequence the book. ⁓ I just laid them out, ⁓ I went to the space on the weekend, looked at it, figured out where the work might fit, and just sort of put the images on the table and try to visualise how it would look on the wall. Then I made a little mock-up in InDesign just to give myself…

Frederic Paulussen (46:50)

Okay.

Wei Jian Chan (47:09)

sense of how the frame just look on the wall in the sense of scale to them. I have to benefit that I’ve printed quite a lot of my work already previously so I know how it looks in print I know that it stands out well to that ⁓ the larger print size and so I’m comfortable with the print sizes I use I know how big the frame will be and so that part is relatively comfortable for me and ultimately because I’ve made the book already I know what the sequences are I know what the pairings work.

from the book and so it’s a question of just translating that to the space and putting together a selection. I wouldn’t call it a best-of because ⁓ that’s not a good way to edit a body of work. It’s going to be what works together and what coherently says what you want it to say. And so that’s how I’ve approached it.

Frederic Paulussen (47:59)

Yeah.

And do you notice ⁓ a difference because the prints will be larger that it some photos were better in that larger format and maybe smaller in the book or ⁓ does the size of the image ⁓ give you a better feel of it sometimes perhaps?

Wei Jian Chan (48:21)

Absolutely, the size of an image is critical and there are some photographers out there whose work ⁓ needs to be seen at scale. ⁓

For example, the name escapes me really.

Frederic Paulussen (48:35)

Yeah, I’m thinking Salgado

right behind you, but yeah.

Wei Jian Chan (48:41)

Who’s the guy who made Anthropocene?

Frederic Paulussen (48:43)

Sorry, who made it?

Wei Jian Chan (48:44)

who made Anthropocene. This name just escapes me.

Frederic Paulussen (48:52)

I’m not sure if I’ve seen the book.

Wei Jian Chan (48:56)

Edward Burtynsky Ukrainian-Canadian photographer. So basically, I went to see Edward Burtynsky’s show last year. And his photos work because they are so detailed and they are printed so large and you go up to them and as you’re getting closer, there’s a different sort of relationship you have to the image. And I just wanted to use that as an example of why scale matters because for Edward Batinski’s work, I think he goes out there with the large format cameras.

Frederic Paulussen (48:59)

Okay.

Wei Jian Chan (49:26)

precisely so that you can have that different relationship at different viewing distances. With my work, the book is obviously a lot smaller than the framework and so there is more detail as you go up but I don’t print to Edward Burtynsky scales. Generally my standard print size is 20 inch by 16 inch but that I think gives you a very comfortable viewing relationship at a regular sort of 1.5 to 2 meter distance.

And so you can, I think, appreciate the image better because it fills your field of vision a little more. where perhaps there is a small subject lost in a larger space, there is more of an enveloping feel to it. So I think you’re absolutely right that scale is important.

Frederic Paulussen (50:13)

Yeah, yeah, it’s not a small book. saw the Instagram Reels you made already for the promotion. It’s not a small book either, so it’s a really fairly big print. ⁓

Wei Jian Chan (50:25)

Yeah, that’s right. think because, as we were discussing, some of the images are just quite detailed, so ⁓ having a bigger book just helps with that.

Frederic Paulussen (50:34)

Yeah, exactly. If there’s a lot of detail that’s important as well in the image, then you have to make sure people can see it. If it’s a small print, it might not stand out. ⁓

Wei Jian Chan (50:48)

And equally,

there’s lot of brilliant small books out there. So for example, Maria Lax’s, Some Kind of Heavenly Fire, is a very small volume. And it works so well because it feels like a diary. It feels like a little notebook of thoughts, of memories. so again, the book is such a varied medium. And that’s one of the reasons why it’s so interesting.

Frederic Paulussen (50:51)

Yeah.

Yeah, and that’s also why I was wondering to the… because the size of the photo matters, but it doesn’t have to be always bigger. But for that reason, because it’s for a gallery, it’s larger photos, of course, I was wondering how you went about it because it’s a different feel. Maybe I’m not sure, like, did some photos ⁓ make it into the gallery, but not into the book, for example? Or did you make sure the selection was ⁓ always book related?

Wei Jian Chan (51:39)

I

think I’m only going to show pictures from the book in the gallery, just for a bit of focus.

Frederic Paulussen (51:41)

Yeah, okay. Yeah.

Makes sense. ⁓ And then I’m curious too, because there’s a lot of experimentation you already mentioned. Well, we mentioned the portraits in London. You mentioned Singapore, you mentioned India. Is there like, I’m not sure if…

Well, if you have a location wishlist, but if you have like a technical wishlist or is there like a project you’re thinking of that’s like something you would want to do?

Wei Jian Chan (52:18)

Frankly, I’ve been so focused on getting the book out lately that I haven’t really been thinking about future directions. ⁓ And I imagine it will come about very much like the rest of my work, which is organically and almost instinctively, know, something will catch my eye and, you know, a lot of that will come up the project. So I’ll continue working on my India series, planning to return later this year and hopefully next year too, if I can.

Frederic Paulussen (52:21)

Yeah.

Yeah,

Wei Jian Chan (52:48)

I’ll continue working on Singapore, which is just something I do every time I go back. there are so many places in the world I’d to visit. ⁓ think next on my list is Texas. I’ve heard so much about it, and I’m quite curious about it. It seems they say everything is bigger in America, and apparently it’s even bigger in Texas. So I’m curious about that.

Frederic Paulussen (53:11)

Okay, that’s very curious. Yeah, maybe like for a second on the India series, because you mentioned that you’re not really thinking about the next series, which I can imagine because it’s not always fun or interesting to keep working on one project. But for example, for India, it, are you, I’m not gonna say shoot randomly now, but is it more like an open and see what then catches your eye to make a series or?

Wei Jian Chan (53:38)

So I’ve made four trips now to India ⁓ and I think it’s coming to the point where I have to start narrowing it down ⁓ and where I have to look out for for certain things. So what precisely that is, I really honestly don’t know right now because I haven’t done the work, I haven’t sat down to curate my images. But at some point I’ll sit down before my next trip, look at what I’ve made already and try to find ⁓

Frederic Paulussen (53:58)

Yeah.

Wei Jian Chan (54:08)

the sort of point that I’m making or the distinctive thing I have to say and pursue that more deeply because yeah, there needs to be, for that body of work, there needs to be more focus now.

Frederic Paulussen (54:18)

Okay.

Yeah, but for now you kind of cast your nets fairly wide and not be too specific about this or that. It’s more like everything that’s interesting I’ll photograph up to now. Yeah.

Wei Jian Chan (54:38)

That’s right. So I think there are

different phases to any project. the initial, I mean, just speaking for myself, it almost always starts with just experimentation and going out and just doing what feels natural and right. And then along the way, you have to impose perhaps a bit more of an ⁓ order to it, a bit more structure. And then that’s where the restrictions come into play and where you…

have to discard some of the, as you said earlier, kill your darlings. So, for the India work that’s coming to that second phase now, feel.

Frederic Paulussen (55:17)

Okay, that’s cool. ⁓ So I’m gonna do the outroduction in a second, but maybe it’s interesting for you to repeat just about the book and the exhibition where people can buy the book and visit the exhibition.

Wei Jian Chan (55:31)

Sure, thank you Fred. ⁓ So my new book, Journey to the West, published by Setanta Books, is now out. This is a collection of my street photography in black and white and it’s organised around the theme of the experience I had in my early years of moving from Singapore to the UK, which I’ve tried to evoke using the anonymity, geometry and formal visual language of my photography. The exhibition is to celebrate the launch of my photobook.

It will be held in London at the Aperture Gallery on Ridinghouse Street near Oxford Circus. So anyone who is in London, I hope to see you there.

Frederic Paulussen (56:07)

Yeah, and of course I’m putting links for it in the description so people are sure to find the right book and the right ⁓ exhibition. So, thank you Wei-Jian for the time and insights, very interesting. If anyone wants to follow him, of course his links are in the description. Make sure to follow his amazing photos on his website or on Instagram, but you’re not super active on Instagram, I noticed. ⁓

But of course, the website is perfect for this. Also make sure to follow the podcast in your favorite platform. Doesn’t really matter which platform as long as you follow it. And of course, you can also follow me for updates on social media for new episodes. And again, all the links to everything we mentioned will be in the show notes, which is linked in the description. So thank you and see you in the next episode.

Wei Jian Chan (56:55)

Thank you, Fred.

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