Today, I’m joined by Michael Eugster, a street photographer from Zurich, Switzerland. His work stood out for the well-composed yet candid moments he captures.
Follow Michael Eugster
- Website: https://michaeleugsterphoto.com/
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/michael.eugster.photo/
- Substack: https://substack.com/@michaeleugsterphoto
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Timestamps of this episode with Michael Eugster
00:00 Introduction to Street Photography and Michael Oikster
02:11 Michael’s Journey into Street Photography
04:15 The Nature of Street Photography: Candid vs. Posed
09:33 Techniques and Challenges in Street Photography
13:29 Routine and Consistency in Street Photography
19:35 Exploring New Cities: Inspirations and Challenges
23:19 Connecting with Subjects: The Photographer’s Approach
26:05 Maintaining Freshness in Familiar Environments
28:59 The Art of Series Photography
32:05 Emotional Influence on Photography
34:57 Exploring Substack for Photographers
39:48 Learning Street Photography
47:14 Community Engagement in Photography
49:34 Workshops and Photo Walks: A Personal Perspective
Photographers, resources, and gear mentioned in this episode:
- Street photo festival (find the full list)
- BSPF
Thank you for listening to this conversation with Michael. Don’t forget to subscribe to be updated about upcoming episodes. Feel free to reach out via social media if you have any questions or ideas you’d like to share.
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Podcast Transcript
Frederic Paulussen (00:01)
So, welcome to the Slice of Time Street Photography Podcast. Today I’m joined by, I’m going to try to pronounce this as correctly as possible, Michael Eugster a street photographer from ⁓ Zurich, Switzerland. And his work stood out for me because he has very candid moments, but still also very well composed moments. So I like the combination of the two. So hey, Michael, could you perhaps introduce yourself for a second?
Michael (00:28)
Hi Fred, so first of all thanks a lot for inviting me. It’s a great pleasure to be here in the show and be part of it. I was listening to your podcast since a couple of months and definitely super interesting guests and nice to be amongst these guests. So, ⁓ as you said, I’m from Zurich, Switzerland.
Frederic Paulussen (00:49)
nice.
Michael (00:54)
⁓ That’s the German part of Switzerland, the largest city in Switzerland. ⁓ Obviously a good thing for street photography, so there is quite some things going on in Zurich. ⁓ I am in the field of photography and street photography since 2021. Started in 2020 and then slightly shifted into street photography.
first tried out a couple of other genres within ⁓ the field of photography but figured out that street photography is definitely the thing I like the most and step by step went into that direction so that’s where I found myself then ⁓ after a while soaking up everything about street photography and ⁓ exactly so ⁓ yeah that’s the past couple of years what I did and ⁓
It’s of course a lot of fun and I really enjoy the whole process about street photography and the community and everything around it. So it’s not only the picture itself or the process of taking the photos but also like the whole kind of scene and everything together.
Frederic Paulussen (02:11)
Okay, that’s cool. Yeah. And you mentioned already that you tried different genres of photography and then slowly went into street photography. Is it kind of like… ⁓
I’m gonna ask like, do you see yourself as a street photographer and it’s like closed off or do you still see yourself as like a photographer and you do also, I don’t know if you did like landscape or architecture or what you did before. ⁓ Is that like a very closed off ⁓ niche you see yourself in then or genre?
Michael (02:46)
Yeah,
no, I definitely see myself probably in, I mean, there’s a lot of like discussion also about is it
what street photography, the type of photographers who do street photography, but I think it matches what we do pretty well. So I’m 100 % doing that, nothing else. I’m also pretty dogmatic in that regards, not only in regards of photography, but also in other things in life. So when I do something, I really do it 100 % and I really want to do it as pure as possible and only… ⁓
that particular type of thing ⁓ very intensively. So I really dedicate all my free time. ⁓ Of course, there are other things in my life as my family and so on, but really as much as possible to street photography, going out as much as possible. mean, also kind of had an impact on my work life ⁓ after like 20 years of corporate.
⁓ Jobs I made myself self-employed, what gave me the opportunity to have more flexibility, go out more to shoot. ⁓ Of course that was not the only reason, but it was one of the elements I took into consideration to move into self-employment, that I’m just able to do more photography and do more my kind of…
Frederic Paulussen (03:54)
Okay.
Michael (04:15)
Yeah, my vision, how to grow, develop and build up a portfolio and so on. So I would definitely see myself as street photographer to answer your question and only doing that. So nothing else.
Frederic Paulussen (04:22)
Okay.
Okay, so
the freelance work you do is not photography related at all. It’s just… Yeah, okay. Yeah.
Michael (04:34)
No, it’s like HR, so typical
corporate stuff and also one-on-one coaching, stuff like that. So very people-focused topics. ⁓ Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Frederic Paulussen (04:46)
as well then, yeah, okay, it’s kind
of, ⁓ yeah, because your street photography is also very people-focused, it’s…
Michael (04:53)
Yeah,
definitely. think that’s it’s not a surprise that I probably find myself in street photography because I’m definitely a someone who is very interested in people. I heard a lot of street photography talking about they’re quite introvert, but I would say I’m more the extrovert person and I like to talk to people. I approach people pretty easily.
And I like to be ⁓ in urban landscapes and observe. So that’s the second thing. So people and observing people, noticing things, noticing people, noticing details. That’s always something I was very interested in even before I did photography. So I’m definitely someone with kind of open eyes ⁓ walking through life. And that helped me now ⁓ in that particular thing what I’m doing right now. ⁓
Frederic Paulussen (05:46)
Just…
That’s cool. Yeah, it’s fun to hear that because there I’ve had a few introverts ⁓ recently. So it’s fun to hear an extrovert street photographer as well, maybe. And I’m curious. ⁓ First of all, it’s kind of like also location based how the people in Zurich and maybe Switzerland in general are open to street photography, especially like to me, it’s maybe a bit of a stereotype, but people in Switzerland are maybe more introverted and more closed off. So how does that?
that work for you.
Michael (06:18)
Yeah, it’s
definitely as you said, so Swiss people usually are reserved, they have a fear that people kind of approach, if you approach them too closely, if you take their picture, they react pretty quickly. So what are you doing? Suspicious, what’s going on? So it’s not an easy environment, I would say.
But I mean, that’s how it is. These are the rules I need to work with. And of course, you as everyone else within the genre, you’re developing certain skills and certain techniques, how people probably not realize that you took their picture. And so ⁓ it’s not easy, definitely, compared to other locations. Yes.
Frederic Paulussen (07:13)
Okay, yeah, because all your photos, don’t seem like you would have those issues. So that’s really, really good on your part, of course, because that shows that you’re… ⁓
You’re very talented. So that’s why I was asking. Also because I had that idea of, well mostly it’s said about Germany that it’s very hard to photograph people, but I felt like Switzerland is very, well the German part is very culturally connected to ⁓ Germany. So I was wondering about that part. And then you also mentioned that you’re a kind of dogmatic photographer. ⁓
Do you have like very set rules for yourself then that you really try to stay within or?
Michael (08:01)
Yeah, definitely. so I think what’s always interesting for me is that discussion about what’s, there are different types of street photography, like sub-genres or however you want to call it, sub-chapters. For example, there is like street portraits.
asking people to take their portrait, is that really street photography? It’s not candid anymore. So that’s where I probably would say, it’s not that really typical core street photography thing. ⁓ And of course you can expand that discussion also to other things like silhouette shots and so on.
where I personally for me and of course everything is absolutely fine and you need to be happy what you are doing but for me personally I probably more drawn to the let’s say typical type of street photography, candid people of course there can be some exceptions from time to time with no human being in a picture
And then, of course, also people like ⁓ the front of the people, faces, like these are elements I really am drawn to. for me personally, it’s that type of photography I want to do.
Frederic Paulussen (09:25)
Yeah.
Okay, yeah, yeah, makes sense. Yeah, and because you were saying, was wondering how…
fixed your set of rules to yourself was, so I was wondering about that.
So, but indeed, as you said, there’s a lot of sub genres in street photography. I also try to get them all in the podcast, like photographers from all those genres. But of course there is always a discussion, is this still street photography or not? It’s sometimes, I was actually just wondering about, I saw a photo of a person here in the city, a street photographer I know, and he made like photos of, there’s like this light festival.
And it’s like, that street photography or is it more event photography? there’s all, I think there’s always about, well, a lot of photos you can have a discussion. Is it street photography? Is it event photography? Is documentary photography? As you said, like street portraits, it’s always, what’s the, I don’t think street photography has like very set boundaries in itself. And it’s important to cut your piece out and have, yeah.
Michael (10:41)
Yeah, absolutely. think that you got a good point here. There’s so many different ways of expressing yourself with street photography and that’s the nice thing about it, right? That it really is not defined by one or a couple clear rules. So you have a wide range of things being creative and finding your own way how to do street photography. And that’s nice.
But the way I see it for my personally, at least at the moment, maybe I also develop into a specific direction in, I don’t know, maybe couple years. But at the moment, that’s what I understand personally about street photography. But that’s the nice thing, that we have a broad range of different things. absolutely.
Frederic Paulussen (11:32)
Yeah, exactly. But for you it’s important that it’s candid.
Michael (11:36)
Yeah, totally.
I think in that respect, I would definitely go that far and say non-candid photography. So asking people is in my point of view, not street photography. We can discuss about anything else, but it should really be candid. It should be kind of documenting life or capturing life as it happens. Right.
Frederic Paulussen (11:55)
Yeah.
Yeah, makes sense. I’m actually thinking about doing more sweet portraits, but it’s more because someone advised me to do it because it helps you to become less shy when doing the candid stuff. So it’s kind of like, ⁓ to me, it’s gonna be more like a segue to…
Michael (12:15)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Frederic Paulussen (12:21)
the candidates, I still have to do it. I still have to build up the courage to actually ask someone. I saw some people last weekend, which I think, yeah, so it’s, it’s, I agree with, I wouldn’t call those photos, I think street photography. they would be street portraits, but not street photography, I think, but it’s, yeah, to me, it’s got, it might be become a segue to practice the, ⁓
practice approaching people more candidly then.
Michael (12:52)
Yeah, no, no, good point. I think try it and people usually I’m pretty sure never tried it, never did it. But I would assume people usually are super happy if you approach them with a certain compliment and ask to take the picture. would say 95 % of people would say yes. And good luck for that.
Frederic Paulussen (12:54)
So.
I’ll have to find out, yeah.
But it’s also like last time I was like, I should start doing it, but I had like a 28 millimeter on my camera. So I was like, it’s not the best portrait lens, so I’m not gonna do it right now. yeah. And so…
Michael (13:24)
Yeah.
Frederic Paulussen (13:29)
Yeah, you said you were doing street photography for like four years, five years maybe now, and you do it very regularly, almost daily I read. So is it really like become a part of your routine or do you just like change it up every day or how does that work for you?
Michael (13:45)
Yeah,
I really try to do it at least six times a week. Maybe there’s here and there a day I’m not able to because I have to work or do something with the family. at least the other six days I try to go out. Some days it’s like only two hours and then other days a couple more hours. But I think you’re having a good point about the routine thing and that goes with everything else. I mean, the good example is going to the gym.
Frederic Paulussen (14:04)
Only two hours is already a lot, but okay.
Michael (14:14)
If you go to the gym on a regular basis, it’s kind of a routine, And then if you’re not going, you miss something. And I think that that also helps me to, if I go out on a really regular basis. ⁓ it’s funny, usually when I come home after a couple hours shooting outside, I really have enough for that moment. really say, no, I’m tired now and I want to go home. I have other things to do. But as soon as I’m at home, I…
again, would like to go out as quickly as possible. yeah. So that’s clearly one thing about the routine thing. On the other hand, I’m, to be honest, ⁓ I really believe in if you want to get the interesting shots, the special shots, like the special things happening in a specific scene.
you need to be out as much as possible otherwise you will not find these things so it’s really a number game as more as you out the higher the chances are that you’re finding things and as we ⁓ often from everyone else who goes out and you know that as well often nothing happens so yeah
Frederic Paulussen (15:33)
Yeah, yeah and I also read and it’s the same for me. You’re not really a patient person. You stick around for like two or three minutes maybe. ⁓ It’s the same for me and it’s sometimes what I do is I hit the same place like three, four times in a day because like it changes and it’s kind of my way of…
waiting for a scene but then also just going around and seeing how it changed. you’re also a very ⁓ well like the hunter and fisher thing you’re very much more of a hunter. ⁓
Michael (16:05)
Yeah, definitely. I mean,
there are certain corners in Zurich where I know the light is good and there’s a lot of people coming from various sites and it’s easy or more rewarding to get good pictures there. there are places where I from time to time just stand there for a couple of minutes. Also, you just cannot walk for hours and hours. Sometimes you need to stand still for a couple of minutes.
Frederic Paulussen (16:19)
Mm.
Michael (16:32)
⁓ So that can happen but I’m not the type of the fishing type of guy waiting in front of a nice wall as a background and definitely not. No, no, I’m walking ⁓ most of the time.
Frederic Paulussen (16:46)
Okay,
and so like do you talking about the routine again, so you have like a fit more or less fixed Hourly routine, let’s say or like time wise. Do you also do like the same walks everyday Do you change it up or how do you? approach that side
Michael (17:05)
Yeah, so there are a couple of roads ⁓ which are pretty crowded and I do these roads of course every time I go out but like the direction how I walk through these roads can vary so sometimes I go this direction sometimes the opposite but it’s like more or less the same area.
And sometimes, of course, that’s also something I say to myself, you need to go to another area of the city. There are also interesting things maybe happening there. Maybe it’s not that crowded, but it can also be interesting, give a bit more variety to my pictures. But I still stick then to the super crowded areas. ⁓ yeah. So it’s I would say most of the time it’s the same like routes, as you said.
Frederic Paulussen (18:01)
Yeah and I mean it’s it’s I can imagine I’ve heard from from other photographers as well that they enjoy their own city more than for example different cities so maybe it’s the same with like you have your your set places sort of speak or your area where you focus in your city I can imagine it also be like knowing a place can help you get get better photos so
Michael (18:24)
Yeah, definitely.
Definitely. think it’s super interesting if you know everything inside out and you know where the light hits perfectly and at what particular time of the day. you also start to realizing every small little change in the city. If there is something new placed somewhere, you immediately realize, that wasn’t there yesterday. But on the other hand, sometimes it’s also, you know, I mean, if you’re walking six days a week,
Frederic Paulussen (18:47)
Yeah.
Michael (18:54)
the same city for a couple of months. I’m also from time to time super happy if I can travel to another country, to another city and have maybe a week somewhere else and kind of freshen up my mind and see different things. And then I’m happy again to be back in Zurich. And so that’s definitely something I need from time to time to break through this kind of routine.
Frederic Paulussen (19:18)
Okay, yeah. And
are there cities you frequently visit or do you try to change up every time? For example, do you go to London every six months or whatever or is it more like a different city each time?
Michael (19:35)
So I started going to New York on a regular basis. ⁓ so last year I was three times the year before and in May I will go again. So that’s definitely something I super much enjoy ⁓ being in Manhattan and I mean obvious reasons. And of course we can go now into the discussion but.
Frederic Paulussen (19:39)
Okay, cool.
Michael (20:02)
It was photographed so many times while you’re going there, not to a different place, but to be honest, I just love the city, the rhythm. I feel connected to New York in kind of a way. It’s rewarding to take pictures there because there’s so much happening. I just like it. I just love it to be there. just feels right. And I think that’s super important if you are in a city and you feel connected to the city and if you…
if like where you are, enjoy the groove of the city. think that’s the basis of being ready to explore the city from a photography point of view. And then, of course, like Paris, London are super close. So maybe once a year in April, I will go to Istanbul the first time. Again, a city which is probably… ⁓
Frederic Paulussen (20:53)
cool,
Michael (20:57)
done by a lot of street photographers, a lot, but still something I want to see. And yeah, let’s see what I will find there.
Frederic Paulussen (21:05)
It’s very popular, yeah, but I think same with as you said like New York, there’s a lot of photographers. Well, there’s a lot of photographers there. There’s also a lot of photographers, photographers visiting. Same with like, I think London, Paris, maybe less so last like the last decade, maybe it used to be very popular. But I think even then it’s like, as you said, with your own city, it changes every day, especially those cities change so much. There’s so many people passing through.
Michael (21:19)
Mm-hmm.
Frederic Paulussen (21:34)
living there so I think there’s always going to be like a new angle and also the way you approach it will be different so I think with those cities it can still be fresh yeah so it’s it’s I don’t that’s something I learned in London recently it’s not because it’s overshot that it’s ⁓ if you come with a new approach and you a new way of looking I think it can be very different still
with every city actually, it’s also with especially with the bigger cities, I think. So do you have like a wishlist still that you say like, for example, Istanbul, that you say like, that’s a place.
Michael (22:17)
Yeah, mean, India must be super interesting because it’s just so different. I was once in India, but that was way before I was interested in photography. ⁓ And I just loved that experience there. It was so, so interesting. So different to what we know here from like Europe. ⁓ So I would definitely love to take pictures there. I think Asia also. ⁓
Frederic Paulussen (22:25)
Okay.
Michael (22:48)
Probably Japan is ⁓ prominent in that regard. I think there are a lot of also South America could be super interesting. ⁓
Frederic Paulussen (22:57)
yeah
yeah and do you like because for example in Switzerland the people are more reserved as you said and in New York or in especially London I know people are very they don’t care about being photographed that much do you do find that changing your style or way of working maybe do you do you notice that it changes you as well
Michael (23:19)
That’s a good question. To be honest, I don’t think so. I’m just so used to my kind of approach techniques that I just continue doing it that particular way. Yeah, exactly, exactly. So I’m not changing in regards how I take the pictures, ⁓ how I approach people. ⁓ Maybe I could. ⁓ But to be honest, I also had in New York.
Frederic Paulussen (23:29)
Because it’s so like a routine for you maybe, yeah.
Michael (23:48)
once or twice someone telling me, did you took my picture? That’s not okay, you should not do that. So it can happen also there to be honest. But I think you’re right, people are usually more open and they just don’t care in those type of cities.
Frederic Paulussen (23:57)
Yeah, of course,
Yeah, in
London they just don’t notice or they don’t want to notice maybe, I found. And then as you said you’re like an extrovert, do you sometimes or do you often connect with the people you just photographed? ⁓ Or is it more like you take the picture and you disappear again?
Michael (24:22)
Yeah,
I’m more the second type of person. I never talk to people. No eye contact as good as possible and taking the shot and disappearing. I’m really not interested to talk to people. Well, at least to not the people I…
Frederic Paulussen (24:25)
Okay.
Yeah,
I understood what you were trying to say.
Michael (24:41)
Yeah, exactly. No, definitely
not. Definitely. I think it’s a nice thing if you are that much interested and there are a lot of people. You also talked in your podcast to a couple of people who really intensively then talk to those people. ⁓ But that’s not something. I mean, I’m also very much in a kind of a flow in my thing and I don’t want to be disturbed. ⁓
and having that kind of process being ⁓ paused by start talking to people. And of course it would be interesting probably having that conversation, but yeah.
Frederic Paulussen (25:24)
But it sense if you’re in that flow, it can be really stopping you if you stop for a time, because you never know if it’s like for two minutes or maybe 15 minutes and then you’re completely out of your flow. ⁓
Michael (25:39)
Yeah, that’s a funny
thing. Of course, in Zurich, I run from time to time into people I know, so not non-photographers. then you either you kind of try to escape that you want to continue taking photographs and not like interrupt your flow. But of course, sometimes you need to talk to them and it’s nice. yeah, it happens pretty often as Zurich is big.
Frederic Paulussen (26:00)
Yeah.
Yeah,
no I can’t imagine, yeah that’s actually very true. Is there a way because you do the same places so often to keep it fresh to yourself or is just because it’s such a routine and a flow that it’s always interesting to you?
Michael (26:27)
No, it’s definitely not always interesting. mean, I often ⁓ kind of struggle, no, okay, let’s go this direction. But then I say to myself, but there is nothing happened. So I mean, it probably also has something to do with your constitution on that particular day. If you’re positive thinking, if you’re maybe a little bit more skeptical, but to be honest, I’m not always like, okay, super interested and let’s see here and there.
Sometimes it’s hard work, it’s a struggle, but I still kind of manage to, since today I still manage to be very optimistic about let’s go out. I will find something today. Of course, I don’t know exactly what, I’m…
pretty optimistic that every walk, and I think that’s the nice thing about street photography, you have no clue what’s happening, but there is always the chance that you find something. And of course, in most cases, nothing, but from time to time you get rewarded. That’s the nice thing about it, right?
Frederic Paulussen (27:38)
Yeah.
Yeah, like now that you’re mentioning this, have two questions that kind of forks in different directions. Maybe the first one, which is maybe a shorter fork, question is like, don’t you have like a massive photo library by now? Then if you go out daily or are you very ⁓ conservative in shooting?
Michael (28:02)
Yeah, I think probably a bit more on the conservative side. ⁓ usually it’s, I would say like 40 to 80 pictures per day. Yeah. For a couple hours. I don’t know exactly if that’s a lot or not, but I think more could be less. And sometimes I walk for an hour and take one picture or two. That’s it.
Frederic Paulussen (28:13)
Okay.
Yeah.
Okay, yeah. Sometimes photographers have the reflex, let’s say. I have it, for example, often make a photo, even if it’s a bad one, to keep your finger ready to trigger the photo, but also just to keep the momentum going. But I can imagine if you shoot daily, then it’s maybe a better idea to be slightly more conservative and not make photos of every, I don’t know.
Michael (28:42)
Mm-hmm.
Frederic Paulussen (28:59)
graffiti wall or whatever just to stay focused. So that’s a very interesting question now I forgot the other fork because we were talking earlier about going out daily
Michael (29:00)
And
Frederic Paulussen (29:17)
Yeah, anyway, I still have several other questions as well. You, for example, well, you have a sub stack which we can dive in later as well, but you mentioned this thing called trigger themes which are things you intuitively shoot, for example, subjects or specific scenes, and then paste them together afterwards. Is that something you’re at home working your series or is it more something that you just think like, this can fit in there and then it’s done or how do you…
Because you also work in series a lot, I saw on your website, on your sub stack.
Michael (29:50)
Yeah, yeah. So there are, of course, certain topics I have in my mind, and if I go out and see something, I collect them. But it can happen. And most of the series also came out of that particular process. Then when I’m editing the pictures, I maybe realize after a while, hey, I took in the past months. ⁓
couple shots of, I don’t know, just pick anything, dogs. So maybe it will be an interesting series about dogs. And I tried to put them, or at least dump them into the same folder. And maybe one day that will be a nice kind of ⁓ collection to put on my website or whatever. So they kind of emerge. ⁓
that could emerge from realizing that I have connected pictures. And of course I have them in my mind when I go out. And maybe that’s also a little bit when you’re out and nothing happens, but you at least you have like these topics in your mind, keeps you kind of awake in a kind of a way. And you’re still able to collect small little things.
Frederic Paulussen (31:10)
Can I?
Michael (31:14)
while the super interesting, super complex scenes don’t happen, but at least ⁓ it keeps you kind of motivated in kind of a way or, you know what I mean.
Frederic Paulussen (31:25)
Yeah
yeah yeah makes sense so you sometimes like actively think about like I have this series going on if I see something like I might look for a bit more extra for as you said dogs or whatever yeah.
Michael (31:36)
Right,
right. usually, or I mean, these topics, these series topics, I have them on my mind and I don’t really go out and think about them. If I see something, I immediately realize that, oh, that’s what I’m looking for, actually. So I have least 10 to 20 topics in my mind and try to collect them.
Frederic Paulussen (31:57)
Yeah.
Yeah, okay, makes sense. And then I found my question from earlier again. ⁓ So as you said, like you would go out daily and sometimes feel, know, like sometimes you’re more happy than other times and sometimes you’re more annoyed maybe. Do you notice in maybe how many photos you make, but also how those photos look or maybe the topics, you like afterwards notice your…
emotional state let’s call it in those photos is that something you see represented in them or
Michael (32:37)
That’s
a good question. ⁓ I don’t think so. I mean, I think that ⁓ I believe there is a correlation between. ⁓
how motivated or positive thinking the daily constitution you’re in, ⁓ the impact it has in the process of taking pictures ⁓ and maybe less the type of pictures you take. But ⁓ there are days where I take much more pictures and days where I’m more conservative. So I thought about that. ⁓
already and I don’t have the answer. But there are obviously there are days where I’m just more kind of relaxed, more open, more taking more pictures. And other days I struggle and come home with only like 10. And I cannot answer why that’s the certain like
elements which have an influence, good light for example, if you have good light to take more pictures. But there’s also like a personal kind of constitution, you know what I mean?
Frederic Paulussen (33:53)
Yeah, I mean it’s as you said like sometimes it’s you know, it’s better light or there’s more things happening or there’s and in combination with how you feel so it’s ⁓
it’s probably not a there’s not one ⁓ aspect that’s it’s very hard to approach it scientifically let’s say or statistically so it makes total sense but it’s it’s I think it’s interesting to think about it especially since you have so much so many photo walks done by now that you you could have it’s interesting that you don’t have an answer let’s let’s let’s say that because it’s ⁓ yeah and so ⁓
Michael (34:11)
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
Frederic Paulussen (34:33)
I was also thinking because I noticed that you’re very active on Substack. Is there like a specific reason you like? Well, first of all, why do you publish your photos? That’s always an interesting question maybe. But also why do you prefer Substack over, for example, ⁓ Instagram or a blog or whatever? Because I noticed the past year there’s been a… ⁓
big growth on Substack especially in regards of street photographers.
Michael (35:04)
Yeah, so first of all, I just wanted to try out something ⁓ that was in summer. ⁓ I heard about it and thought I was never the writing type of guy, but I thought, okay, thanks. No, definitely not. Of course, I have no issues with writing also during my work, past ⁓ work.
Frederic Paulussen (35:17)
Really, because you write really well.
Michael (35:31)
experience, I was writing a lot, it’s not something I thought about doing as a hobby or something. so I tried, I thought, let’s try it. ⁓ And so that’s one thing. ⁓ The tool itself or the platform itself, it’s really super easy. It’s well made. ⁓ You can do within very ⁓ less effort, very less time ⁓ input.
do nice kind of texts, embedding pictures, super easy, super nice, it looks good, proper. So it’s nice to work with Substack, I think. Of course, I also use the other platforms, Insta and so on. ⁓ But I think Substack has another level of quality in regards of exchange of people, so how people react. ⁓
even if you think about if you’re posting a Substack article and I’m usually spending, let’s say, roughly four hours into an article. So it’s quite some time and you get something back, I feel. you see you have a lot of statistics, of course, as these platform offer you.
But you see how many people are reading the article. And to be honest, mean, if people, someone is reading your article, spending five minutes, that’s a nice appreciation, think. And usually also comments are a bit more than the Instagram comments. Nice shot. Well done. Whatever. So they really give you a feedback about your text. So another couple of minutes. ⁓
Frederic Paulussen (37:12)
Yeah.
Michael (37:18)
providing their time for your work. So that’s also something that is very nice. And then on the other hand, another reason why I think it was interesting for me or is interesting for me, I think it’s great to give something to the community. When I look back in my first two or three years,
As I said at the very beginning, was soaking up everything I found on the internet, every text, every YouTube video about street photography. I was super interested to learn from people who doing it maybe for a couple of years already, just to figure out how things ⁓ work and what I need to know. So maybe I can also give back something by sharing my thoughts, my approach and so on.
⁓ connecting people with the interviews I post on Substack, so giving people the opportunity to show themselves. So I think it has a really lot of potential and it’s fun. ⁓ Maybe I’m not doing it anymore in a year from now, but at the moment it’s super nice and it’s fun and it’s a good addition. ⁓
Frederic Paulussen (38:24)
You never know him. Yeah.
Michael (38:30)
when you’re at home in the evening and you’re not able to shoot but still want to do something street photography related. it also helps a lot to kind of write down thoughts, street photography related thoughts, my vision, my ideas, ⁓ just to throw it out.
Frederic Paulussen (38:51)
yeah I can agree and it’s also sometimes that you or at least what I noticed when I write down like these ideas is that I sometimes make like thinking errors it’s like I was so sure of this idea and now that I’m writing it it’s it’s kind of falls apart to myself so it’s like I have to rethink this apparently or it reinforces myself and like yeah I’m on the path so I totally totally agree with that ⁓
also something like I write down daily anyway so what I’ve done and sometimes start with it so I can say it does work ⁓ very well and I found it interesting that you mentioned like learning all these things via YouTube and online stuff. ⁓ Did you really like study it or is more like or how did you ⁓ find the right content to ⁓
to ⁓ grow your style because there’s a lot of street photography content going in like on YouTube alone in all directions. So I think that’s interesting maybe to talk about how you approach learning street photography.
Michael (40:05)
Yeah, I mean, at the very beginning, you don’t know anything, right? You just know that our street photography is super interesting. I like to do it when I’m in the city. And then you go home and just enter street photography on YouTube, for example. And then, of course, millions of videos pops up and you start ⁓ looking at them. And I think that’s an own process of itself, figuring out ⁓ what’s out there, what
type of the sub-genres we were talking about and then finding kind of your own voice in regards of what are you interested in. So, for example, at the very beginning I was, ⁓ I remember I was looking at the like these YouTube videos of the well-known guys but maybe they’re a bit more general photography.
so you look at like maybe the broader photography videos and then step by step you dive into that kind of rabbit hole ⁓ photography and you’re ending up in that particular corner of street photography you’re interested in.
Right. I think that’s how it happened.
Frederic Paulussen (41:25)
Yeah,
and was mostly YouTube or did you start diving into photo books or?
Michael (41:30)
Yeah, for the books as
well, YouTube for the books, of course, Insta has also a certain influence, of course. ⁓
Frederic Paulussen (41:39)
That’s cool. Yeah, because it’s to me like Instagram is can be very interesting. But same time there’s so much that it’s to me becomes hard to to actually appreciate the photos. So for example, it’s up side because it’s maybe it’s yeah, if it grows, it might become less interesting again. But because it’s like a self filtered let’s call it that it’s it’s maintainable. So
Michael (42:04)
Yeah, we agree.
Frederic Paulussen (42:06)
same with youtube to some regard like it there’s a lot of videos but it’s manageable in some regards i think but yeah
Michael (42:15)
Yeah, I think once you sorted out what type of street photography you’re really interested in, maybe there is a handful of YouTube channels you really think interesting. then these are the channels or people I still consume, I still very much enjoy. But everything else I left behind, it was very important for my development, for my journey, but ⁓ not anymore.
Frederic Paulussen (42:28)
Exactly.
Michael (42:44)
what I’m looking for.
Frederic Paulussen (42:46)
Yeah, exactly. It’s cool that you really made that conscious niching down. it’s a very good, I think, approach a lot of people can benefit from. do you like when you study, for example, people on Instagram, do you really like take the time to…
to study their overall work. example, for these interviews, I always go to the website or Instagram or Substack or whatever to see your entire body of work because often it gets more interesting than just one shot. often not always. ⁓ But on Instagram it’s sometimes hard because you’re more in the feed. Are you really going to people’s profiles and to their websites or how do you…
Michael (43:41)
Yeah, I definitely do. think Instagram is still, ⁓ of course, it’s overwhelming, it’s too much, but it’s still a great source. And I definitely take a lot of inspiration from Instagram. And I also look at people’s profile and study their portfolio and maybe dive a bit deeper into one’s work. Definitely.
Frederic Paulussen (44:09)
Okay, because yeah, yeah to me it’s harder on Instagram, sometimes I can imagine. I’m more of a website kind of guy apparently, I noticed.
Michael (44:17)
Yeah, think so too. think the
website is definitely also I also have like a folder on my Chrome browser where I like save all websites of street photographers I’m interested in. So from time to time, I check their websites and see is there new stuff on it or study a bit to work more. And I also believe that like
Frederic Paulussen (44:34)
yeah.
Michael (44:47)
recent street photographers are very interested to study not only like the past, the big names of course, they’re also kind of interesting and important to know the history, learn from them, study the books and so on. But I really take a lot of inspiration from recent street photographers and think there is a lot of very, very good work out there and I enjoy that very much.
Frederic Paulussen (44:55)
Yeah.
Yeah, to me it’s hard to study, for example, your work. It’s very interesting. I like it. I like how you think. But to me, it’s very hard to emulate it then because it’s so very candid and moment based. So it’s hard to say, will try that as well, because it’s…
that moment will never happen again, which for example the silhouettes and the more architectural compositional ⁓ street photography, of course you can easily learn from those because it’s repeatable in that sense or in some sense. ⁓ So that’s why I find it interesting that you still use for example Instagram for those study moments.
Michael (45:58)
Yeah, but you know, I think that’s for, I don’t know, but a lot of people and for me that was definitely the case. That was as well part of the learning curve to start with silhouette shots, start with ⁓ repeating shots of people I admire and learning by repeating things and maybe also copying certain things. ⁓ And then step by step finding out
what you’re really interested in or what your type of photography is. that was needed ⁓ during my journey and the big part of it to find my today’s kind of type of shots.
Frederic Paulussen (46:44)
Yeah.
Okay, cool. Good to hear. That’s nice to hear. ⁓ And then you mentioned like learning from the community and giving back to the community via your substack for example. I know you visit some street photography festivals and everything. Is that something you also, because you’re an extrovert, of course, is that something you look for? Like, for example, in Zurich, do you meet up with other photographers as well? ⁓ Or when traveling abroad?
Michael (47:14)
Yeah, it’s definitely something I’m interested in, to exchange with other street photographers. ⁓ On one hand, of course, as you said, the festivals are a very good opportunity because everyone is coming together at the same place, in the same days, and you meet a lot of interesting people, ⁓ build up relationships and so on. So that’s really nice thing about these festivals. ⁓
and definitely the reason to go there as well one of the reasons for going in the future. And then in Zurich ⁓ there are a handful of people shooting here in Zurich so of course I see them, we talk to each other, there’s also kind of a small meet-up, don’t go there often from time to time but it’s always super interesting to having this exchange. On the other hand ⁓
When I go to a different city, for a week for example, ⁓ I usually just want to shoot as much as possible. And of course it would be nice to have interaction with other people, ⁓ if it it happens. And also met other people ⁓ while I was shooting outside, good kind of interactions.
Frederic Paulussen (48:24)
Okay.
Michael (48:37)
relationships started building up by these kind of encounters. But what I probably, ⁓ probably more like seven days there and shoot as much as possible and not hang out a full day with someone else. And then of course having quality interactions, but I’m there for shooting and nothing else.
Frederic Paulussen (49:00)
Yeah,
okay, makes total sense. it’s I can imagine it as well. I mean you can go for like a beer in the evening of course, but yeah, it’s if you go for shooting then it’s not easy with someone there. Some people like it, I’m not really.
it that much but it can be worth it. like do you enjoy it? I’m not sure if you’ve done like photo walks on festivals. Is it something for you that’s interesting or is it more like a social activity then?
Michael (49:34)
Yeah,
no, it goes a bit into what I just said. I’m not a photo walk type of guy. ⁓ I don’t know. But that’s also something I think about often. Should I be more open to those things? Because there is, I’m pretty sure there is something you take out of these photo walks, good interactions, tips and tricks from other people. So should I do it more? I really don’t know. Also the topic of workshops, I never
Frederic Paulussen (49:40)
You don’t join those, ah okay
Michael (50:04)
took a workshop with an experienced street photographer, well known name, whatever. Until today I wasn’t super interested in, but to be honest, when I think about that topic I believe it would be beneficial and I should do it.
Frederic Paulussen (50:22)
I yeah, it depends. For me, I’ve done workshops and I’ve done photo walks and to me it’s interesting because I just enjoy, for me it’s kind of like you start seeing how people work. So for example, I did a photo walk on the Brussels Street Photography Festival. We were like a big group, we were like 15 people I think. And some people just…
There was, I remember a moment where someone was just looking at like a trashcan. And to me it was like, I don’t understand what he even can see from it. And then afterwards I saw the photo, was like, okay, this is nice. And then to me it’s kind of like studying someone’s work, but studying it live Like you don’t just see the photo and you think like, okay, they’ve probably done this, used that lens, blah, blah, blah. It’s…
That’s how they did it, you see them, the same guy, we were in a gallery somewhere, and he just photographed a plastic bag from someone who was holding. And to me it was super weird, and he used flash and was unsure about if that would even be an interesting photo. And then afterwards I saw the photo, was like, okay, that’s actually, so to me sometimes it can…
work those photo walks and those workshops. It’s kind of like…
as you said, like copying someone else kind of, especially with the workshops, the photo walks are less that way, but especially the workshop with like a well established photographer is like kind of just copying what they’re doing. But then to me, it’s after a struggle for a couple of weeks afterwards because then it’s, tried to do the copying too much and then it slowly evolves in my self again and it’s added to my way of shooting and style. But so yeah, I see
Michael (51:49)
you
Frederic Paulussen (52:16)
in them but at same time I can totally imagine it’s it’s not your your vibe or your world
Michael (52:24)
So you also took workshops with like small groups or?
Frederic Paulussen (52:29)
Yeah, I’ve done a few by now. did like one last month with like a photographer. It’s like a small group of Antwerp photographers. So we all knew each other and just one of them gives workshops, street photography workshops regularly. So we just like will follow one with him, even though we actually kind of know him in his part of the group. But it’s I think we were like five or six maybe, including the instructor.
And it’s just very interesting because at that point you… For me it’s interesting to see how he gives his workshops as well, but also because it’s in the city I live in, usually it’s in a different city, those workshops. It’s interesting to know how exactly they look at certain things and sometimes even…
Like in a city I thought I knew well sometimes someone spots something like a dirty window or whatever and you’re like, that’s interesting that I first of all never saw it before and also that it’s actually a good picture. And sometimes it’s a style of picture you don’t enjoy, but it can be still valuable. And sometimes like that’s exactly how I would do it and interesting that I never saw it. ⁓ And so it’s, yeah.
Michael (53:44)
or indeed.
Frederic Paulussen (53:47)
And also to, because I was, I’m very shy to the people in my own city because it feels they’re very aware of cameras. ⁓ But then you go out with someone else and you notice that they’re much more spontaneous with it, for example, or that people don’t really care. And sometimes that can be interesting as well. But it’s, yeah, it depends, yeah.
Michael (54:08)
Yeah. ⁓
Okay, the lesson I took from our conversation today, need to visit the workshop. You just find out when you do it, When you try it.
Frederic Paulussen (54:19)
I mean you can try it and if it’s not your thing yeah that’s yeah true
and usually I find on like ⁓ street photography festivals they are very like affordable like especially in Brussels last year they were very cheap I found but it’s yeah I mean and then it’s just looking to me it’s interesting because I usually go for photographers in different styles than I am just because I find it more interesting to
Michael (54:32)
Yes.
Okay, yeah.
Frederic Paulussen (54:49)
to learn more from that then.
Michael (54:53)
completely different. ⁓
Frederic Paulussen (54:55)
That’s my approach usually, yeah,
because then often you have to fight your own ideas kind of or your ideas get challenged, which is interesting I think and often you, yeah, if you already know everything then it’s not interesting.
Michael (55:13)
Well, who knows everything! ⁓
Frederic Paulussen (55:16)
Yeah, that’s true. But if it’s like a very similar style, then you might already know how they do it. So
let’s start wrapping it up there because I’m not sure if you still want to go out today for your photos or not. Okay, yeah.
Michael (55:29)
I will, I will for sure. The weather is opening
up so the clouds are moving away and the sun is coming out so that might be some good conditions.
Frederic Paulussen (55:39)
That’s great.
That
might be interesting to see what you come up to today. So thank you, Michael, for your time and insights. Of course, as always, if anyone wants to follow Michael, I’ll put all their links in the description to Instagram. And especially his sub stack is very interesting. So I think ⁓ that’s something you should definitely visit and read. Also make sure to follow the podcast, of course, on your favorite platform, which is probably the platform you’re listening on right now. And feel free to share this
with a friend who would be interested as well. So thank you Michael.
Michael (56:16)
Thanks you, It super interesting ⁓ conversation and much appreciated.