Welcome to the Slices of Time Street Photography podcast. Today, I’m joined by
Nina Welch-Klingh, a street photographer from New York city. I heard about her on the YouTube Channel of Samuel Streetlife and was immediately attracted to her distinct style of street photography and strong eye for diptychs.
Follow Nina Welch-Kling:
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ninakling/
- Website: https://www.ninaklingphotography.com/
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- My website: www.fredericpaulussen.be
Timestamps of this episode with Nina Welch-Kling
00:00 Introduction to Street Photography and Nina’s Journey
03:10 Exploring the Art of Diptychs
06:05 The Process of Creating Diptychs
08:46 The Role of Weather and Environment in Photography
12:06 Using Flash and Interaction with Subjects
15:03 Contrasting Urban and Small Town Photography
17:52 The Evolution of Projects and Artistic Discovery
20:47 Defining Street Photography and Its Boundaries
33:36 The Passion for Photography
35:28 Exploring Street Photography vs. Architectural Photography
36:46 Finding the Magic in Photography
39:02 The Art of Composition in Photography
41:06 The Fast Shooter: Techniques and Strategies
43:29 The Importance of Anticipation in Photography
48:20 Planning Your Photo Walks
51:23 The Challenge of Iconic Imagery
55:11 Creating Your Own Visual Checklist
58:40 Translating Vision into Photography
Thank you for listening to this conversation with Nina. Don’t forget to subscribe to be updated about upcoming episodes. Reach out via social media if you want to share any questions or ideas.
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Podcast Transcript
Frederic Paulussen (00:01)
So, welcome to the Slice of Time Street Photography Podcast. Today I’m joined by Nina Welch-Kling a street photographer from New York City. I heard about her on the YouTube channel of Samuel Streetlife, a channel that you should check out. And I was immediately attracted to her distinct style of street photography and also a strong eye for the diptychs, which I’m sure we’ll talk a lot about. So, hey, Nina, could you introduce yourself for a bit?
NIna Welch-Kling (00:31)
Hi, thank you so much for having me on your podcast. I’m saying hi from New York City on a still not very warm spring or almost spring day. But yes, I’m excited to tell you about my diptychs or whatever you want to know. And I’m happy to jump into any questions you have or anything you want to talk about street related.
Frederic Paulussen (00:54)
Yeah, so yeah, first of all, perhaps like your book monologues, it’s been, sorry, duologues, it’s been, since October 2022 I read. So like for me it’s like, first of all, was it hard for you to make the the diptychs Like was it like a big struggle to get them done? And then second of all, are you still doing it?
NIna Welch-Kling (01:22)
So yeah, so my book, Duologues, it’s interesting actually in Europe, it came out in 2022 in the US in 2023 because it was by, or it is published by a German publisher, Kehrer Verlag. So the project actually at this point has been over five years or six years, six years almost the oldest photo in the book.
Frederic Paulussen (01:36)
Okay.
NIna Welch-Kling (01:47)
And so it was quite a long-term project. think a lot of street photographers, that’s not how they work. They’re usually individual photos, but it’s not kind of a project that lasts a couple of years. And so initially the diptychs, so the diptychs is in my book, there’s always two photographs that are on opposite sides and it’s consistent throughout the layout of the book.
The two photographs always have a rhyming element. Now this rhyming element can be something different in each photo and actually is something different in, in I would say most of the photos. So first of all, I shoot on the street or I take my photographs independent of, the diptychs. So I get often asked, did you photograph for the pairs? And absolutely not. I
I go out and photograph just like any, we all do on the street and I look for moments, I look for mystery, I look for something that catches my eye. And then when I come home, I kind of try to pair it with another photograph. And what’s important is that one photograph doesn’t carry the other, meaning it strengthens the other photograph just because, you know, it might be a weaker photograph or
And I always like to say it’s like a marriage. It’s like each person brings something to the couple or to the relationship. And that’s how I felt about this project. this project actually grew out of a class assignment. So it wasn’t like something that one day I woke up, was like, oh, let me try this. It was a assignment that we had and we were looking at Ralph Gibson‘s work.
it was like, create a couple of diptychs for the next week, just to kind of explore ways of trying to sequence photographs. And so it’s not a street photography class, so everybody in the class had to do this. But somehow my photos really…
worked well in this kind of layout and I really loved what it did to the individual photos because the story became about something else. was temporal meaning there were moments from two years ago and a moment from last week and somehow together they created something that offered something to the viewer that I couldn’t really explain. So whatever experience you have or whatever
the viewer brings to the photograph is different from person to person. So every story is different. Now there’s my story, of course, and I kind of finagle or try for you to see what my connection is, but that does not mean that that’s what you’re going to see. And that kind of makes me really happy because it kind of takes on a life on their own. And what also is
What I think is interesting about it is that I feel that the more often you look at it, the more different things you will see. There’s this discovery that you make. And just like when I take photos and when I go home and look at photos, there’s this moment of discovery often where there things that I didn’t see and there things that I…
I took the photo for a reason. might’ve been the light or the layout or the composition or the person. mean, but when you come home and there’s something added to that photograph that you did not see at that moment, that always makes my heart jump. For example, in the book, there is this one photo, a man is kind of holding his hands in front of his face. And I kind of…
Positioned myself because I saw that the light was very low and I knew people would come up the subway with like kind of shielding themselves from the bright light what I did not see at that moment was that he was holding a dollar bill and So it’s like when I got home and I saw that it was like this extra that was added to this photograph and so Yeah, so
Now I totally lost. I don’t even know what you asked about the diptychs. But I will be talking. But yeah, so it was, know what, it was a five year, it was, it was a very long term project. And I really fell in love with, with, the diptychs. And I’ve in between worked on other projects. But recently I went back to creating these diptychs and creating the pairs. And I realized how hard it is to actually do them.
Like I forgot that, I mean, once I was in the moment, kind of, you I was in a role and I would really see the connections and it was fairly, some were easier than others. some, now I’m like, well, you know, that doesn’t make sense and that’s not very interesting. I mean, it’s actually harder than you think.
Frederic Paulussen (06:54)
Yeah, I can imagine.
That’s why I was asking like, was it something that you just did like for two years and then you were like, happy I’m done with it? Or has it really become like a part of your work and who you are?
To add, now imagine like you’re having like an entire series of like photos who are waiting for a buddy. it, or for like the second photo, it something like that or is it totally, okay.
NIna Welch-Kling (07:23)
No, that’s exactly what it is. It’s like
they’re kind of sitting in a collection and they’re waiting to be coupled up with a buddy. you know, depending on what I will shoot today. And I like, you know, when I look at my photos and it’s like, you know, what could that work with? You know, I usually look for a shift in scale.
So when one side is, let’s say a hand, the other side might be a small detail. So I kind of always try to shift them. And then also what’s interesting to me was that what I didn’t want was for people to see a pair and it’s like, I get it. And kind of go through them. like, I got it. In the beginning, you feel like, okay, yeah, easy. You know, I get the connection and then it gets harder. throughout the book,
All of a sudden it’s like, wait, I don’t get it. And then you’re kind of like, what is she, why is there a connection? I don’t see it. And I enjoy that people that is like, oh, maybe it’s this, or maybe it’s this, because there is no one answer that was my answer. But then, you know, there’s your answer. So there’s kind of this up and down through the book. There’s one pair that, and I think that most of the ones I’m talking about are on my website for people that do not have the book.
It’s this gentleman whose tongue sticks out and there’s a hot dog. And so, you know, it’s kind of like this comedic relief in the middle where it’s kind of, oh yeah, I don’t get, you know, you kind of move through and then it’s like, oh, this is so funny. So it’s like this storytelling throughout the book. So when I published it, the, the, the pairs were set. The sequence wasn’t a hundred percent set, but there wasn’t that much maneuvering.
but the pairs were set. Like there was not one pair that was torn apart where my publisher or editor said, I think you should shift this. They were like one photo. That’s how connected they were. And that’s how still how I feel like that. They’re very connected.
Frederic Paulussen (09:29)
And did you sometimes like running up to that point of having those two shots become one photo? Did you like make several pairs or was it just like it clicked and you never look back, so to speak?
NIna Welch-Kling (09:43)
Some are a pair and they stayed a pair from day one on. I think the first or this first one where it’s a Guggenheim and a woman saying like a very dark, like very initial, very graphic. That was one of my first pairs and that has stayed together. But often I will go through, I don’t know, sometimes 20, 30, 40 photos where I kind of scroll through them.
Frederic Paulussen (09:53)
Yeah.
NIna Welch-Kling (10:09)
and I take screenshots and I look at them, I print them out and then they don’t feel right and I print a lot and you can kind of see behind me. I like to print and have the work up and then you kind of look at it and somehow they still have to feel right and if I look through the book maybe because now I’ve looked at it in a while. They all still feel pretty good which makes me happy. There might be one or two where I’m like,
you know, maybe I would change them now, but that always happens. But most of them still feel feel pretty good. And there isn’t a really a a recipe that you can say, you know what, this is this is what it has to be. It’s kind of a visual game playing and it’s and then it becomes like this emotional response. So there’s I think it’s both of it. So a lot of them there’s
diagonal connections. So there’s a lot of formal connections that are in a lot of the pairs. There’s usually a connection in terms of tonality or in terms of color use. But then within that, there are challenges and you know, does that go? And you can imagine as a street photographer, we photograph so many photos. You know, as a digital street photographer and I shoot digital,
Frederic Paulussen (11:35)
Yeah.
NIna Welch-Kling (11:37)
the amount of photos that I have is tremendous. And then you kind of go through them, you know, and everybody has their system. So then first it becomes flagged and then, you know, it becomes a green and then it becomes maybe a red and, you know, so narrow it down. And then they go into a green duologue collection. And then I kind of, kind of go through them, but it continuously add to them.
Frederic Paulussen (12:04)
Yeah, making it harder and harder on yourself as well, like, because you mentioned like, there’s always a connection, like not only in content, but also in, let’s call it style or graphical look. Did you ever have to like, get a combination of photos, but you’re like, this contrast is just not high enough, I’ll have to re-edit the photo or did that happen? Or was it?
NIna Welch-Kling (12:07)
You
Frederic Paulussen (12:34)
Like, okay, then it doesn’t work.
NIna Welch-Kling (12:36)
I mean, would do that. I mean, my photography, think, for this book or for this project was very high contrast. And so a lot of them are in bright sunlight. They’re shot very, very high contrast. If there’s a photo that doesn’t have that, will happily push that, you know, in Lightroom, I will edit it to kind of have a similar
tone or similar feeling to it. I’ve no problem doing that. And I also now I crop less. I mean, probably my earlier photographs, there were some that are cropped. I don’t think there are that many, but there are some that maybe from a, from a horizontal was cropped to a vertical because that’s just how at this point I only shoot. but initially there was one or two photos where I felt, you know what that
that works with another photograph, I have no issue cropping. So I know that’s always a big discussion. Do you need to get it, you know, you’re purest and it has to be all in frame. Like for me, that’s not as important.
Frederic Paulussen (13:51)
No, I’m on the same level as you, think. Sometimes you just have to be quick, capture the shot and then perhaps crop it out a bit. You don’t have the zoom lens with you or whatever, so you have to crop it out just a little bit. So it’s a bit tighter, but yeah, I totally understand. And you mentioned the high contrast sunny days. By the way, I have the hotdog photo with a guy with his tongue. It was one of my favorites.
I like that you used that example. so most of the photos are like high contrast as you said, sunny days. Did you have like on like winter days or like gray days like felt like you couldn’t work on this project or was it then how did that, how did the weather involve your
NIna Welch-Kling (14:36)
That’s such a good question. Right. mean, it’s such
a, it’s such a good, I mean, now I, there’s a lot of snow and steam and blizzard kind of photos are in there. So I, that to me helps to even out the background. I’m not a person that has a lot of messy backgrounds. I always try to simplify, but there might be,
You know, so I will include that, but then it has to be kind of paired with a less contrasty if that works so that it kind of feels like one story. But yeah, it’s a very good question. Now I actually, if it’s sunny out and high contrast or in the winter, which is amazing because you get the long shadows or, know, in the summer, in the evening. So then I will choose. And then I I’ve been working on a, on a very different project, also candid.
photography, I guess, on the street, but very differently. And for that project, it’s called Rallentando. For that project, I can only go out when it’s not high contrast, because it’s this kind of very even toned, this kind of soothing layer of color that is over the photographs. And so the minute it’s high contrast, I actually have a couple that are
Frederic Paulussen (15:46)
Okay.
NIna Welch-Kling (16:01)
in a little more contrast and have sun coming in. But I look for shady areas. So it’s very interesting when I’m like, it’s beautiful out. It’s now sunny and I’ll take my X100V Fuji and I will take that. And if I say, it’s kind of a gray day, let me take a different camera and shoot for a different project. So it works out well because I think we all have to think
We have a certain way of seeing the world, how can you make everyday work for you to go out and shoot? So if I want to shoot high contrast, recently I’ve been adding a flash.
Frederic Paulussen (16:37)
Yeah.
I was gonna ask because I just saw one photo of it was the it’s like a lady with the the ash cross on her her forehead so that was using flash right
NIna Welch-Kling (16:52)
She was actually, yes, very, that was very well seen.
Yes, that was using flash, but, know, using flash on the street, that is something I think you have to kind of grow the confidence into it because there’s not every day that I feel brave enough. And it’s kind of funny. It’s really, you know, how you mentally on the street and how you’re in your flow, but not every day do I want that kind of
Frederic Paulussen (17:08)
Yeah.
NIna Welch-Kling (17:22)
reaction from people or want to be that close. I want to be a little more back, you know, stepping back. want to be unseen. I want to be more gentle. And some days I don’t mind. I will go out with a flash. And this is actually a funny story. I was in Germany and you know, in Germany, street photography, I think is like the rest of Europe, I assume where you need to get permission from people.
to photograph them. I think it changed a little bit now because of the art, the fine art, right. But people are much more aware of you shooting a photo and they’re much more like, I think stepping back and say, why are you doing this? So this was in my hometown, very small town, not a, probably very few street photographers. And it was this wine fest in the summer and I was out with my flash.
Frederic Paulussen (17:54)
Yeah, it’s kind of okay, I’m not sure.
NIna Welch-Kling (18:20)
And every time, and it’s a little fill flash, it’s not a wedding photography, it’s not a huge flash. And every time it flashed, people thought because it felt like it was a little thunderstorm, mean like the summer thunderstorms with no thunder, but it’s just lightning, like the summer lightning. They’re like, my God, is it lightning? I mean, also people had a lot to drink, so that played also in my favor.
But people are like, wait, you went and you photographed with a flash? And I do, and I think this is always an interesting discussion between male and female street photographers. a woman might act a little aggressively towards me, but it’s not as scary, I think, as if you’re male and somebody starts.
threatening you of why you’re taking my photograph and I’m friendly and I’m smiley and I really can take a situation that escalated and deescalated fairly quickly by showing photos, by being friendly, by smiling, by explaining myself. But yeah, the flashes.
Frederic Paulussen (19:33)
Yeah,
and there’s you mentioned something earlier that I will try to unpack because it’s really interesting. But first I want to get back to the, so you went to your hometown in Germany and did you, apart of course from like the privacy reflexes that we maybe have more than in the US, did you feel like the…
scale of the city like New York, a very big city and then I forgot the name of your hometown but it’s Schweinfurt but it’s it’s a I’m not sure how big it is but it’s do you okay very small yeah so
NIna Welch-Kling (20:06)
Schweinfurt.
It’s about 50,000 people. It’s not…
Like, you, yeah, if I find it easier or if it’s possible even.
Frederic Paulussen (20:17)
To you.
Or do you find a difference in how you look up to it? Like, falling light for example, you have less contrasty opportunities I find because of the buildings, they’re probably a bit less high, less obscuring the sun. You don’t have the typical New York smoke for example. So do you find yourself attracted to different subjects perhaps or even different techniques or styles or…
NIna Welch-Kling (20:47)
I think the only thing that changes like I still will kind of look for an area where the light and the background works for me. And then I kind of like people walk towards me so they see me very clearly and they can they can respond to me they can walk around me I think that is already but people are curious and you know and I think they don’t think that I’m taking photographs of them you know it’s like I kind of look at a wall or something and
they I think they don’t believe that I photograph them. And then I actually I had an exhibition in the in my hometown last year. And it was really, really amazing because I took probably 25 or 30 people on a street photography tour in this very small town. Yeah, we were like 20-25 people.
Frederic Paulussen (21:38)
All together.
NIna Welch-Kling (21:43)
and I just walked around them. mean, this town does not have that many streets. mean, I can walk this in 10 minutes if I must. And I took this group and there were people and they couldn’t believe that I was able to have subjects that were willing to photograph. Like what I did was so, because once you go with a larger group, I said, know, we’re street photography. Do you mind if we photograph you and
people, there was not one person that said no, just because I would ask, and we actually had TV with us, they were like the first 10 minutes. So it really was nothing subtle about us moving through town. And people were very curious. And I think if you think you’re doing something wrong and do you feel bad about what you’re doing? I think people sense that when I go there and I smile them with my camera and
start talking to them and people are very open. There was this group of young people that were probably unemployed or they were vaping and drinking like at 12 o’clock noon. But I started talking to them and they were lovely and I loved the smoke and the vaping. said, oh, I’m coming with a group tomorrow. Are you going to be here? And I said, oh my God, we’ll come and we’ll bring extra batteries.
And you know, yes, I’ll have the photograph. And they felt really important because people cared about them and not in a kind of looking down way, but people cared. Like I, I always find that the everyday person, because nobody really cares about you or, you know, on the street, when you actually say, you know what, you looked beautiful in this slide, it elevates the people. So it’s not.
You know, think when you kind of start out, you’re like, Oh my God, like, you know, I shouldn’t be doing this. And, but this is not how I feel at this point. I really feel like when, when I go out, you know, people are never, I think people don’t feel threatened. And if they do, when I explain it to them, they’re so happy and they actually want to participate and redo.
the shot or ask me if they should do it again.
Frederic Paulussen (24:06)
Okay that’s nice. Yeah for me I don’t interact too much but I do get like the excuses like sorry I didn’t see your photographing they were like that that happens a lot yeah especially in like southern France I noticed
NIna Welch-Kling (24:14)
Right.
Frederic Paulussen (24:22)
So I want to circle back for a second because you mentioned earlier the two projects, it was Duologues and Rallentando And you mentioned that you have like two different cameras for them and that it’s also like different weather types and lighting situations. Is that on purpose or is it like something that just evolved in or?
NIna Welch-Kling (24:31)
Mm-hmm.
Usually my projects evolve. So my projects do not come as like, I think I should be doing a diptych. It’s kind of always a discovery that happens. So I think, you know, when, when photographers think about a project, there’s two ways of approaching it. There is either saying, this is what I’m interested in. And this is kind of what I’m laying out.
this is what I’m going to look for. And then that kind of evolves. Mine is more of a discovery. I think that’s because it’s candid street photography. I enjoy that you kind of fall into these things. so the duologues kind of I fell into because of the class project. So the Rallentando happened because it was during COVID and I felt I still wanted to go out and photograph and
there were very few people and you know I felt that I should keep more distance I think people would be more comfortable with me with my camera and so I decided you know what I’ll go out with a longer lens and that’ll be interesting and I like to experiment and so I went out and I took this one photo and I loved the way the light and how it was kind of blurry and the feel of it
But now I did not know how to replicate it. So it took me, think, another kind of six months to figure out how I could consistently create that kind of a feeling of the mix between the more in focus part and the more less focus, the kind of blur part. And also the color, all the color comes from the background.
So it’s not for sure. It’s also. And so these photos are not cropped. And so to your point of going out with a different camera, when I went out with a longer lens and it’s was like a 135, which for street photography is insane to do that’s a long lens. But what happened was because I am a person who goes close. I still was now two feet away from people.
Frederic Paulussen (26:42)
It’s long lens, yeah.
NIna Welch-Kling (26:51)
that were walking by me. So it’s not like I, you know, I crop these photos now I’m with a long lens in front in people’s faces that are walking by. And so it’s kind of funny because my, my idea was to step back, but yet here was being just as close. And then it created like a blur and a different reflection. And it became a very different kind of idea about street photography and
you know, it’s always like the color. So I will look for a colored background. So the red is the sprig wall that’s near my house. There is a blue wall, like a 20 blocks away from me. I will, my family and my friends says, Nina, I saw this really monotone colored wall that might work for you. And so it is a very different kind of project, but all of the people are, you know, are candid or all the, all the portraits are candid.
Frederic Paulussen (27:46)
Yeah, it feels really intimate.
NIna Welch-Kling (27:46)
But in a, a, Mm-hmm.
But I think because I’m so close with the long lens.
Frederic Paulussen (27:50)
So.
That might explain it, but even then because like I’m not sure if it feels like a 135. That’s what I’m trying to say. Like it does feel like a, I don’t know, like a 50 millimeter and you’re really that close. But of course it isn’t because also that would be, especially during COVID, probably not that easy. So yeah, that’s crazy. And then you mentioned those colored walls. it like you have like
NIna Welch-Kling (28:04)
Interesting.
Frederic Paulussen (28:24)
because you have these grids of one color is it always at the same wall or do you pick several walls along the city?
NIna Welch-Kling (28:32)
I try
to differ the wall. the green actually is every single construction fence in New York is green. So any different places. So the construction fence is always this kind of green. So depending on the light or when then there are some, there’s this woman that we can just kind of see that the ear and the beautiful red hair and
Frederic Paulussen (28:42)
Okay, so it’s different places, but yeah.
NIna Welch-Kling (29:00)
she was in front of Carnegie Hall and it was very dark but she was going wherever she was going but you can actually kind of see the brick behind it. So there are different places even for the red but yeah in the large grids there are a combination of different places.
Frederic Paulussen (29:19)
That’s cool, yeah. then, yeah, you can find those places, combine the shots. It’s really nice looking. Yeah, very intimate. So was it something you tried to convey with it specifically, or is it more like a feeling? Yeah, sometimes it’s hard to explain, of course, why we do things. But it’s…
NIna Welch-Kling (29:40)
Well, right, but
I’ve now been spending a lot of time on trying to write an artist statement, which is when when you actually work on a project or series, this is like the burden that comes with it. The writing about it and so what it really is, it’s it’s my interest in kind of a peripheral perception when you walk down the street where there’s different things we pay attention to.
So for example, in the yellow one with the woman with the red lipstick, this might be something you pay attention to and see. And, you know, that kind of stays with you. And so also the recollection of when you come home of what you do remember. And the other part about this is that for me, photography to me is kind of this meditational aspect of life. So it’s kind of this being in the moment of.
focusing on the people that are in front of me and the kind of being mindful about what happens around you instead of just thinking about everything else, but where you are at the moment. So there’s a lot of, and also about, these are everyday people and what struck me or where I was really attracted to this was that everybody became kind of beautiful and had this gravitas, almost like this painterly,
Person and these people are people that are going from you know as a sales clerk going home from work or a woman Coming, you know picking up the children or a kid coming home from school. These are not people that are considered anything, you know that we pay attention to and often in street photography, I think and you know people do it really well, it’s the kind of situation of somebody falling or people looking like I’m thinking of a Joel Meyer with so are
where it’s kind of this scenery that is, but this is different. And this is why it’s always interesting is, where does it fall into street photography? mean, it’s not portrait photography, but it’s street photography. I find this is an interesting discussion. Like, what is street photography? And what is that box? Where’s this box end? And I don’t think it should end.
Frederic Paulussen (32:01)
Yeah, it’s funny because like this morning I was writing a blog post about it’s kind of it’s different but kind of an event like do does street photography need people in it? And it’s like yeah what what’s what do you consider street photography for me it’s more like it’s it’s almost like a feeling like this does feel like a street photo to me and it’s not really like a verbal or like a written
definition you can give to it. to me these photos feel like it’s weird because it’s between street photography and portraits but like if people say like street portraits this is not what I imagine. I’m currently looking at a red background with someone with bubblegum on it and it’s like it’s clearly a street photo but at same time it’s
NIna Welch-Kling (32:38)
Is it a race?
Frederic Paulussen (32:51)
be like a portrait or like almost like well not maybe a commercial photo but it’s like there’s yeah as you said like where does that box end it’s it’s almost impossible to to say
NIna Welch-Kling (33:07)
Right. you know, is it important to define? I mean, unfortunately it is because, you know, when you submit your work to, you know, competitions or whatever you, know, where you have to, you have to check a box, you know, so for many things you have to, is it a portrait or, you know, even within street photography, there’s like categories of, you know, is it a series or, and yeah. So
I find it interesting that I mean, I do this because I love what I do. Like I have a passion and then things happen and I kind of like to explore them. And I’m curious and I push, push it often into areas where I don’t even know where it goes. But I, you know, that’s what I enjoy. And I also enjoy going back and forth. So I will go back and forth between
know, the kind of black and white street photography and I enjoy it because it’s great and it gets me, you know, into a neighbourhood and I love people watching and sometimes it just feels better to have these kind of quiet, you know, quiet moments. I mean, to me, I always think like of street photography. It’s like it has to be some kind of imprint of life. So it could be, you know, it could be a bird’s wing that was imprinted in snow or
you know, snow, like, what is it like, snow, like footprints of a bird in the snow. I don’t think you need the person. But it has to be kind of like there was a person there could be you know, if it’s a it’s laundry flowing in the wind, there was a person or there is some kind of imprint of that person that happened and kind of timestamps it instead of just being you know, if it’s just a
building where there is none of these kind of human touches, then it’s more of an architectural, like, you know, what does, where is the difference between like an architectural photo that’s just a facade or a street photo? All it takes is kind of just, you know, is it enough if just a person walks by for scale? mean, that’s one way of doing street photography. And a purist
Frederic Paulussen (35:18)
True, yeah.
NIna Welch-Kling (35:28)
I think architectural photography would not have the person in there because that’s not what they want you to look at. It’s not about the scale or the moment. I mean, think it’s such a, you know, it’s a really good discussion to have. And I think to really open it up and have people explore, because I think we see too many of the same photographs, especially Instagram is like flooded with.
street photography at this point, obviously mine or yours probably, because you know that’s what our algorithms are clearly. But you know it’s like when do you kind of stop and say this is interesting, you know like why am I attracted to that or you know what is it about this that kind of moves me and is a little different.
Frederic Paulussen (36:00)
Yeah, guilty.
Yeah, exactly. yeah, it kind of brings me not entirely to a different question. First of all,
because it’s well first before I ask that question like because you you mentioned like what attracts me to this photo and that question that people ask is there like an intense feeling for you
or what makes you take a photo of a subject? Like do you just see it and find it aesthetically pleasing or is it something more to you?
NIna Welch-Kling (36:46)
I think you cannot, it’s hard to pinpoint what you’re kind of attracted to when you go out. Now, what I like to tell myself is like, I wanna find the magic. Now that magic recipe, I can’t give you because it’s something like, I like to look for things where it takes you a second to figure it out. It’s not a kind of scenario of.
different things happening at the same time. I’m also not the street photographer that layers their photography with situations and fills the frame in, you know, with a lot of different peoples or activities. That’s not the way I see. And, you know, that’s not what I do well. I’ve tried many times and, you know, I feel miserable because it is so hard to fill your frame in…
you know, where every corner has something interesting happens. It might be two things that are interesting, but the third one, damn, you know what, I’d be here for another year and it might never happen. So what I usually, I look for something that I find magical. So it might be a light that, so the one with the hot dog that was on fifth avenue and it was at the end of the day.
And it was just like this little beam of light. And I kind of stood there for a little bit because you have like what, 10, 15 minutes before the light is gone. And at that moment, this person walked by and it just illuminated the hot dog. So I just kind of got that, that hot dog in the light. And, you know, then the rest of the photo kind of falls into darkness. And that’s usually what I like. Like there is something, I think it’s always in my photos, very clear what I’m looking at.
Like when you look through my photos, you know exactly what caught my eye.
Frederic Paulussen (38:32)
Yeah.
NIna Welch-Kling (38:40)
But yeah, so.
Frederic Paulussen (38:40)
Yeah, to
me that’s a crazy, because you mentioned making these complex compositions, so that’s too hard for you, but at same time, think, for example, for me, compositions that are as clean and as clear as yours is very hard as well. So it’s kind of like, I think, who you are and how you look at those things. Yeah.
NIna Welch-Kling (38:59)
Mm-hmm.
And how you see the world. And I think that’s a nice thing
that, you know, the beauty, I think about being creative is that there’s so much room for different creative voices next to each other. There’s not, you know, there can be only 10 street photographers. No, there can be a hundred because each one of them has something different to offer that makes us look at the world a little differently. And maybe when we take them all together, we get like one.
better view of this world, you know, that we all kind of see, but I think that’s the nice thing. And that’s the beautiful thing about it, that if you and I go out shooting, we will be in the same room and see the same people. And I will say, my God, how did I not see this?
Frederic Paulussen (39:48)
Yeah, exactly. exactly. Yeah. Can I imagine with the group of 25 in your home town, some people will have different photos than the others, even though you were at the same time, at the same spot, at the same time. So that’s, that’s what I find really, really cool. Also, like everyone works differently. If I look, had the video on your about page of it’s like a short one minute or two minute video of you taking shots. You move fast, like.
NIna Welch-Kling (39:58)
Yes.
Frederic Paulussen (40:16)
And like this week I talked to a guy who was like who could sit like for an hour at one place just waiting for the right person to pass by, which I don’t see you doing I think maybe with the Rallentando project or is that because it seems like you’re a fast like let’s go for it.
NIna Welch-Kling (40:37)
I mean, my friends call
me Nina Ninja because I am a very fast shooter. And I think that is definitely something where, you know, when I’m really close to people, that serves me really well because honestly, it’s so fast that people don’t even know I took that photo. That does not mean, you know, it’s always was it the fishing and the hunter. I think we all are kind of a combination of the both. Like there are times where there,
Frederic Paulussen (40:58)
hunter yet.
NIna Welch-Kling (41:06)
you know, where you kind of stand there and you wait for something. But then, you know, in one of the photos in is and it’s on my Instagram also, like the shot with the balloons and had photo. I followed this person for 20 minutes because I saw him out of the corner of my eye. And then while I’m watching him walk, I realized when he walked into the sunlight that
the balloons became translucent. So now I’m thinking, oh my God, that transforms these balloons into something even more magical. I would have been happy with the balloons, but once I noticed that, and now I’m thinking, damn, I want to get him like this urban angel. And there’s actually two photos as a color one on my website. And then there’s that kind of where he’s walking, where I wanted him kind of the wings spread with these balloons and have that as a photo but you know,
I followed him, yeah, I think 20 minutes until he delivered those photos. And I worked this because I knew I will never ever see somebody with these clear balloons again that on, you know, in that kind of, and I, it’s same with, there’s a photo with, nuns that w the habit is like this white habit. It’s a very contrasty shot. I followed them for about 10, 15 minutes. So I will be quite.
relentless if I kind of in my head see a shot and I think that doesn’t always mean it happens. But I give myself at least a chance to kind of put them into a position where it is the right composition for me. Because if it’s like one or two photos, you know, your your chance of getting it right is really limited. But when you walk for about
Frederic Paulussen (42:41)
Yeah.
NIna Welch-Kling (42:57)
10 minutes and you follow somebody in your head, can kind of compose it. You have a little bit more breathing room to take a breath and say, okay, you know, this is what I need. I can go lower. can, all these things, all these tools that come over time, you then have to apply in that moment. But the more you do it, the easier it gets. You know, so it’s a…
Frederic Paulussen (43:20)
I think that’s
an amazing takeaway already. Follow people around. Do they notice you? Do you just…
NIna Welch-Kling (43:29)
So they do notice me. I mean, if I’m a couple of minutes or a minute, they will not notice and they don’t care. But if I follow somebody for five, 10 minutes, I will say, I’m so sorry, I’m a photographer, I love the balloons. Do you mind if I follow you or I hope it’s okay? Then I will engage with them because it’s, you’ll get the kind of look is like, why are you following me for so long? But I think, and I also like,
People would say, like, I like to say that it’s not all luck to have a good photo. I think what it is is that if you do it for a while, you know, you could be lucky and get initially a great shot, but then how do you replicate it? How do you build on that to kind of get something similar again? you know, I think you have to have a certain tool. So I always say the tools that you have to have is,
you know, kind of know your light and your environment. If you go back to places, you already eliminate some unknown, you know, where your light comes from, you know, where people are going to come from. Then I also think, you know, know where your best perspective is from. So if you want to go low or kind of have your camera up higher, you know, how do you isolate that? And the more you’ve done this, the more you can just kind of use it quickly.
when it’s needed. And I think those tools make it easier to when there’s something interesting to actually create a good shot.
doesn’t guarantee it, you know, it’s like at least right, you know, your camera, like if you don’t, you know, if you start fidgeting with your camera and it’s funny, I just was away and my camera setting was totally screwed up. And I’m like, my God, I cannot believe this happened to me. Like it’s like, it was a weird, I don’t know how it reset itself in this weird way. And I did not notice for a day or two.
Frederic Paulussen (45:05)
No, no, makes total sense,
NIna Welch-Kling (45:28)
So I have all these pictures in JPEG and some strange ratio that doesn’t even fit into mine. But that happens also. I mean, I can preach, but I’m not saying that when I go out that this all comes together for me. And it does not. mean, nothing, nothing.
Frederic Paulussen (45:43)
No, of course. You have days where you try but don’t get… Yeah.
That’s such a… Yeah. It’s so annoying that those happen and I’ve learned to accept those. So for example, with the balloons, is it then for you, like you wait, do you like, you see like, okay, there’s a light spots where he’ll probably walk through. I’m gonna…
run up to the place, get my frame and wait for him to pass by or is it more like see what happens, kind of go with the flow and then at the end see like you have a magical shot.
NIna Welch-Kling (46:19)
I think it’s a combination of both. think you kind of have to anticipate. So when I, let’s say I’d see a balloon person on the street now, I will say, you know what? I need to go ahead of them because I think they’re going to turn right and there is a light. And so I will almost set up the scene in my head and plan ahead. mean, you know, they can turn left and then your setup was…
didn’t happen, but in order for it to become the kind of photo that I look for, I need to kind of anticipate. with the balloon shot, was, think it was, there was like this nice triangle, high contrasty area that I was photographing. And it was a skateboarder kid and he was going back and forth and people walking through. And then out of the corner of my eye, I saw the balloon guy. So I ran.
Frederic Paulussen (46:48)
Gone, yeah.
NIna Welch-Kling (47:17)
and kind of abandoned the spot and then just followed him for 20 minutes. And I was in a part of town where I probably have never been before because I followed him until he delivered that to that house. And then, you you kind of go from there and it’s I mean, the beauty of it is that you get to new neighborhoods and you kind of follow your instinct and, know, it’s not that planned out and and, you know, you never know what happens. And that is is so exciting.
Frederic Paulussen (47:48)
Yeah, true. but you mentioned that’s yeah, that’s part of the game, I think. So it’s you mentioned earlier that you had like your like know your situation or your surroundings and everything to make those opportunities to get those shots. Do you have like specific starting points for your your photo walks or however you want to call it explorations? Or do you just walk out the door and
NIna Welch-Kling (47:50)
I mean, that’s why we’re all hooked.
Frederic Paulussen (48:18)
see wherever your mind takes you.
NIna Welch-Kling (48:20)
No, I have learned like I, for example, know Fifth Avenue late afternoon on the east side of the street is where the sun is around four. So there’s certain places that let’s say I have time at 11am in the morning, that’s not where I would go because I know the sun isn’t going to hit through the buildings. So I might say, let me go down to Chinatown.
the buildings are lower the sun you know where where the sun is is is going to be that’s better or let’s say it’s a rainy or it’s a snowy day I usually go to sixth Avenue because it’s high buildings it’s nice to kind of contrasted with scaled figures and there’s still people rushing through and my subway goes there so I mean it’s like you know I you know my spots
Frederic Paulussen (49:09)
Sometimes it’s practical, yeah, but that’s… I think…
NIna Welch-Kling (49:15)
to photograph are usually along the subway that is convenient for me. So, you know, it’s not it’s not always such a really like, yeah, I was looking and you know what now my subway queue line that’s outside an hour at 10 minutes or five minutes for me. That works for me. So I will go anywhere along the minute stops on 42nd Street, which isn’t always my first choice. But
Frederic Paulussen (49:22)
Of course.
NIna Welch-Kling (49:44)
You know, sometimes there is, for example, there is Fleet Week. So Fleet Week is when all the sailors, all these boats stop and they’re all in their sailor uniform. Now I have a love for uniforms, any kind, but when it’s Fleet Week, it’s all these white uniforms. So they kind of really stand out in the kind of dark background and in the sun and where it is. So I will go to 42nd Street because that’s where they are.
or, you know, walk to, to, and then I kind of will wander off and go to side streets because it’s, but I do plan ahead of where I want to be. It’s not totally, there, there is, there’s a plan that doesn’t, might not work out and then I go somewhere else, but there is a plan. Like when we had the solar eclipse, my plan was to go to this open space.
Frederic Paulussen (50:26)
Yeah. Yeah.
No, it doesn’t make sense.
NIna Welch-Kling (50:40)
because that’s where the sun and there’ll be a lot of viewers, you know, with the glasses. So you do, I think you have to, I think it’s easier when you plan a little bit ahead of time.
Frederic Paulussen (50:45)
Yeah.
I think so as well, but I’m sure not everyone agrees. But like for the eclipse thing, because I wasn’t aware that happened, but for example, because that’s like, I think once in a lifetime event, or at least not something you can really train for. Did that pan out for you? Did you like have certain, like did you research in advance or were you just like, yeah, people are going to be there. I’ll just see what happens or?
NIna Welch-Kling (51:23)
I mean, I remember I look a lot at photographers and I look at a lot of photo books and, you know, from the 20s, 30s, 50s. mean, New York, you have a very large documentation of street photography, whether it’s Helen Levitt or, you know, Robert Frank or, mean, whoever it is, people have shot in New York. So there are photos of the eclipse that I had seen. So I had this kind of
image in my mind. But then the problem with that is like those photos have been done and they’ve been done better than I will ever be able to do that. So I have to kind of put my stamp somehow modernize it and put my own stamp on it. And unless you go and try it, you know, you don’t even have a chance. But, you know, so there was maybe one or two photos
Frederic Paulussen (52:16)
Of
NIna Welch-Kling (52:20)
And it’s interesting because I showed these photos. mean, I’m still in class and I have a mentor who I show my photos to. And he’s like, why are you even taking those photos? Like those are not your photos. Those are, those are the images that you think you should be taking because other people have taken them and you like them. But that’s not how you usually photograph. Will I still photograph them? Yes. Will they end up in my next book? If there will be another book, you don’t know.
But sometimes we have to kind of take them to get out of our system. But there were one or two photos that were more the way I photograph. And it’s fun because it’s, you know, it’s like you do have this imagery. And I think we all have this imagery in our heads. Now what I do have, which I don’t know if most street photographers do that, but I have this kind of checklist of imagery in my head. And I think
especially because there are so many New York street photography, historic street photographers, where there’s things that struck me. So there is a Mark Owen photo. He’s one of my favorite photographers. And it’s this photograph of a kid with a bubble gum. And he shoots with flash. It’s just this big pink bubble gum. And for years, I’ve been wanting to do a bubble gum. Now I have one in Valentine, no bubble gum, but I’ve always been wanting to do a bubble gum photograph. So there’s like this checklist, like I was obsessed with nuns.
And I’m kind of done with the nuns now because I have one nun shot. But again, there’s a lot of historic shots on the street that has nuns in it. I guess it’s the uniform and the way they walk and the flow. So there’s certain topics that I kind of check off that I want to have. And I think like the eclipse was one of them. I didn’t get a great one, but.
Frederic Paulussen (54:13)
Okay. No, but you’ve done it.
No, but it’s to me that the checklist thing is it’s now that you mentioned it, I might have it as well, but it’s crazy that you have it so consciously and that you know what’s on the list and that you know specifically when you’ve when you when you can cross it off. So it’s I think that’s that’s very cool. Is it like, well, I’m not sure, but I’m like now that you mentioned it, I have like
NIna Welch-Kling (54:35)
What’s on your checklist?
Frederic Paulussen (54:43)
moment that I have like thought like okay I’ve got this shot now I’m happy with this subject and I’m I’m done with it yeah I don’t have any it’s it’s more like a retroactive thing for me I think at the moment but it’s that’s crazy and is it for you is it like inspired by by the books or is it more like like subjects you you you know like you hear about nuns or like about the eclipse you’re like
NIna Welch-Kling (54:49)
Right, you’re moving on.
Right
Frederic Paulussen (55:10)
put it on the checklist.
NIna Welch-Kling (55:11)
Good question. I think it’s imagery that really struck with me when I look through books. Like there’s certain Helen Leavitt, there’s like this one photograph that’s always in my mind where these, I think three people are kind of squeezed into a phone booth. And it’s like the color and the layout. And it’s just what, there’s another one where there’s kids on the street with I think bubbles. And so there’s this kind of imagery that
really impressed, like it’s really ingrained into my, almost in my memory because I really enjoyed them so much. Or like the Robert Frank one where it’s the tuba, of course I would never do the tuba again, or the one, you know, in the cinema when it’s the cutout with, I think it was in a, like whatever these photos are that are so iconic.
And then I’m like, okay, this is something that I should be looking for, but then you have to make it your own. And I think this is kind of the fun and the challenge because you can’t copy that that has been done and it’s been done perfectly.
Frederic Paulussen (56:19)
True, yeah. No, that’s true. Yeah, everyone, I’m sure everyone will try or wants to try to have the famous Henri Cartier-Bresson photo of the guy jumping. But it’s like, yeah, you can recreate it, but it should be your own still. Yeah, true.
NIna Welch-Kling (56:28)
Yeah.
But what
you learn from it is like, know, okay, so there’s somebody jumping, but the reflection, something in the background, and what makes this photo so special? How can I translate that into my own photos? You know, at least one of the elements that impressed, you know, that spoke to you. I mean, we will never get all of them, but it was also done. you know, like in the Alex Webb, these amazingly…
Frederic Paulussen (56:43)
Yeah.
NIna Welch-Kling (56:57)
layered photographs where I have studied and looked at them and think, how is this coming together ever? And the, you know, the one in the chat, that’s probably not going to happen for me, but what can I take that he does so well and make it maybe it’s the pattern in a photograph or to people behind each other, how they relate to each other. mean, I don’t know. just, it’s to me, it’s very important to
look at that work and then try to translate it. I mean, it’s all easier said than done. mean, theoretically we can talk about a lot of things, but it’s all so hard.
Frederic Paulussen (57:31)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
No, but it’s cool that you, I think that’s a good takeaway. Like look at people’s photograph, try to recreate them, but make it your own. Yeah.
NIna Welch-Kling (57:48)
Because otherwise you’re copying it and you know what, in the beginning it’s great to copy. But then you have to just like go like why is this something that I love? Like why am I so attracted to this?
Frederic Paulussen (57:51)
Yeah.
No, that’s correct. I thought I spoke with… I’m gonna have to cheat for which episode it was, but it was with Charis… I forgot his last name now. He’s actually a jazz… Charis Ioannou He’s actually a jazz musician who teaches…
NIna Welch-Kling (58:16)
Yeah, yeah,
Frederic Paulussen (58:21)
music to, I’m not sure if it’s kids or whatever. But he also mentioned like at first you need to learn to play notes and then you play other people’s songs and eventually you’ll make your own songs or make the songs your own. But it’s like copying isn’t necessarily a bad thing.
NIna Welch-Kling (58:27)
Right.
No, you need to learn those tools first. So you need to learn, you you need to know your camera. I mean, I actually started, like I only started, I mean, like now it’s like 12, 13 years ago when I kind of rediscovered photography and, and I was never really a photographer, but I mean, as a painter and all kinds of other things, but you need to learn.
to use it. so I started with, that was my point, that I started with flower photography. And that’s how I really learned about depth of field and how I use my camera to use it to get close to the vision that I have in my head. And I think that’s something that’s very hard and it’s still hard because we have this kind of vision in our head and how we want this photo to look, even when we’re out.
But how do we translate it with the tool that we have? Like the choices are, know, are you going to have a narrow depth of field? You know, is everything going to be in focus or you need to kind of learn to manipulate your, your, your tool to get what you want. Now I am the least technical person. Like if you ask me any technical, like, you know, full frame, blah, blah, I’m terrible, but I know exactly how I have to.
use my camera to get what I’m looking for.
Frederic Paulussen (1:00:09)
So on that note, I’m gonna wrap it up here because otherwise we’ll go way over time. Maybe like in a year or so we’ll catch up again to see how far down your checklists you’ve worked. See what else came up.
NIna Welch-Kling (1:00:19)
would love that. Thank you.
Frederic Paulussen (1:00:25)
So thank you Nina for your
time and insights. If anyone wants to follow Nina, course, her links will be in the description to her website and to her Instagram. Unfortunately, we have to use Instagram still. Make sure to follow her fantastic work. Also make sure to follow the podcast on your favorite platform or follow me for updates about new episodes. Again, all the links are in the show notes and as usual, see you in the next episode.
NIna Welch-Kling (1:00:52)
Thank you so much